Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by titalayo miwa on March 6, 2010 at 5:13pm

@AHMED, I CANT C ANY RATIONALITY IN UR COPIED TEXT,WE ALL CLD COPY FROM WEBSITES N POST AS WELL. TIS IS HISTORY IS TOO LATE TO CHANGE IT. FABRICATION? UR COPIED TEXT IS?READ AND ANS:

We see that Muhammad had many people murdered. By request, by command, by implication, Muhammad had many people murdered, many killed while they slept. There were no trials, no judgments, no dialog. If you insulted Muhammad, if you doubted his credibility and if you spoke out, you were murdered. Men and women, young and old, all were killed because of Muhammad's hatred toward those who spoke out against him.

Here is a summary of the 7 terrorist murders committed upon Muhammad's requests or efforts:

1) Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish man who was murdered because he was simply a Jew
2) Abu Afak, a 120-year-old man, murdered while he slept
3) Asma Marwan, mother of 5 children, murdered while she slept
4) A slave woman, mother of two children, murdered while she slept
5) A one-eyed shepherd, murdered while he slept
6) A very old woman, literally ripped in half by Muslims who captured her on a raid.
7) A slave girl, who was murdered because she poked fun at Muhammad.

I will add that there were many more people who suffered a similar fate. I choose not to list them here because of space limitations.


Make no mistake about it: Muhammad was a terrorist. Today's Muslim terrorists follow his actions. Like prophet, like followers; today's Muhammadan terrorists commit their acts based upon what Muhammad did.

Many Muslims are peace-loving people and are thoroughly disgusted about the acts of Islamic terrorism. Most Muslims do not know these historical facts about their own prophet. But Muslim terrorists are usually well-educated in Islam. They are pious people. Spiritual leaders. And they do what they do and how they do it following the example of their prophet.

QUESTIONS


1) What kind of man was Muhammad that he would have peaceful Jews, a 120 year old man, a mother of 5 children, slave girls, etc. murdered because they disagreed or criticized him?

2) Is it right to murder others simply because they disagree with your, or even mock you? Why couldn't Muhammad handle some criticism? Do people who disagree with others deserve to be murdered, in cold blood, in the night, secretly, while they sleep? Don't corrupt politicians or organized criminals do that?

3) Isn't this type of action similar to the actions of Muslim terrorists today? They operate secretly, they kill unsuspecting people, and they murder without law or justice. They kill those who merely disagree or even verbally oppose them.

4) Are these "Islamic" values compatible with our values in America? Should Americans who criticize Muhammad expect to have their freedom of speech threatened, or should they live in fear of being killed for speaking their mind? Remember, Muslims in America have already begun to murder Americans for the sake of Islam.

5) If Muhammad put this system in place, i.e., the murdering of people who disagree and criticize him, how does it affect Islamic society? How does it relate to what we have seen done in Islamic societies such as Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, and Sudan? The end result has been brutal massacres, murders, tortures, etc. This is all traceable to Muhammad's actions.

6) If Muhammad were alive today, and we knew of the people he had murdered, what would you say? Wouldn't we want to see this type of man pay for his crimes, put in jail for life, or even executed? Who feels sorry for that white racist who was sentenced to death for dragging that black man and killing him? Yet Muhammad had a man tortured then murdered, just to get money. Muslims are commanded to follow Muhammad's "lifestyle" and Islamic law. Murdering others, in Islam's name is part of that style and system.

7) Don't we have the right to judge Muhammad according to the best moral standards we know of? He claimed to be the last prophet of God. He claimed his system was God's final system for all mankind. So by our standards, don't you think that what Muhammad did was terribly wrong? If our standards are better than his, then how does his self-asserted "prophethood" really rate? Why should our standards eclipse those of God's final prophet?

8) Doesn't this sound exactly like what some Serbians have done? Yet Muhammad did the same things. The Kosovars were killed simply because they were not Serbians. This is exactly what Muhammad ordered when he urged his follower to murder the Jews.

9) Why couldn't Muhammad murder her himself? Why is it that every time Muhammad wanted someone killed, he always got someone else to do his killing?

10) Look at this dark side of Islam. This is the Islam Muhammad practiced. When the founder of a religion has to have powerless women murdered in the night for opposing him, how can that religion be described?


11) Where are "human rights" now in Islam? If Muhammad denied freedom of speech to others, how does that reflect upon Islam and what we see occurring in the Islamic world today?

12) Why is it that the more fundamentalist Muslim nations become, the more oppressive they are toward all basic human rights? U ALL SHLD GO ND SLEEP, DAT MAN IS SUFFERIN IN HELL, ATHEIST 4ME BETA THAN HELL OF A RELIGION-ISLAM.



Kolade said:

Wah oo.

This is getting too much.

Any way, what you said now doesn't sound like a solution to this religious crisis, rather it has a tendency to fuel it the more. I would have expected you to guide us on how we can put conflicts behind us and be partners in making this world be a better place to live at least to start with Nigeria where I believe most of us come from.

Secondly,I personal disagree with your purported view of the personality of Prophet Muhammad. Any way, that's not new as we've seen such propaganda in the past and perhaps more might still likely come.

Same thing happen to Prophet Moses. We read of what be fell such propagandist at the end. God knows best how to deal with the situation.

However, I will advice you to give us the reference to where Muhammad perpetrated the evil on ASMAA BINT MARWAN, so that all of us can go confirm what you've said. It's not just saying it like that. Help us more by providing us with the prove. By doing so you will be guiding us the more.

On his marital live. He was married only and only to his first wife for 25 years till death put them apart. It was during a very hard period when the pagans of Mecca dished hardship on him that his wife Khadijah died. His beloved uncle that was also on his side too died the same year. So for 25 years It was him and his wife Khadijah alone.
The question then arose how about the rest wives. As for Aisha, who was the youngest of them ; she only came into the scene only when Khadijah the beloved and first wife of his ( whom he lived with for 25 years passed on). In fact he couldn't stop praising Khadijah in the presence of others even after her death.
Somebody on this forum has shed light on Aisha when some body wrote again that Prophet Muhammad married a teenager . We can check our comments base for that.

And so, how did he married the rest? when you look through all these thing you see things clearer on his marital life. Clear proofs are there when you go through Islamic history on the marital life of the Prophet. History did clarified that most of his wives were old and widows who have lost their husbands to terror mounted on the Muslims by the pagans of Mecca at that time. I ask this question: Which young man today will like to choose as his wife an old woman? let's be sincere with ourselves.

As for the first propaganda as far as I am concerned , I will also try in finding the authencity behind this, perharps where it all emanated from. The history is there anyway. What ever my findings are I shall post it for all to see with references for them to go confirm.

I wan't to believe this forum is not about competition of points, faith or race. It's about saying things the way they are.
We might have different views on issues but lets put moderation in everything we say.

God knows best.








titalayo miwa said:

U RE NT ASHAME U RE WASTING UR ENERGY ON MOHAMED ND HIS IDEOLOGY OF MURDER. U COM HERE TO SAY WAT? CAN U ERASE LIFE HISTORY? DO U NO HW MOHAMMED KILLED ASMAA BINT MARWAN, IF U DNT READ MORE.HE TORE HER LIMB BY LIMB AND SKIN HER DEAD WHILE SHE WAS BREASTFEEDING,WEN HIS FOLLOWERS CAME THE SHOUTED' ALLAH ARBAK' YET PEOPLE COM HERE TO SAY WAT? I DNT BLAME THOSE RADICALS, I BLAME MOHAMED HE IS JUST A TERRORIST, WHO KNOWS NOTHING SPIRITUAL IF NT MARRYING MANY WIVES AND KILLING.

I'M NT A FOLLOW FOLLOW, I'M NO MORE A MUSLIM. IF THR IS NO ANOTHER REL, I PREFER BIN AN ATHEIST.

Kolade said:

Mr Lanre,
Thanks for sharing with us those messages. Although some of us might disagree with its context, you're free to express yourself. That's what this forum is partly for. I believe we're mostly adults and too matured to be brain-washed.

Also 'am sorry to have misunderstood you as per your UK residency. And thanks for the clarification. That is how mature members should behave. Thanks for that.

It's good you've encountered at least some degree of Islam by birth I guess. However, 'am not very sure your parents whom you mentioned that are still Muslim (at least your mum) has ever taught you to carry weapons, to behave like mutallab, to promote violence. According to you, your mum is still a Muslim and 'am not sure she has shown you that Islam doesn't means peace.

The fact remains that most families especially in the South West of Nigeria where I come from and where I guessed you also come from by the virtue of your name do have constituents of Islam and Christianity, and non has ever preached evil.

My mum came from a Christian family. My father of course was born into a Muslim family. Between two of them, my mum was the most active in terms of religion. So by virtue of that, she influenced us and we the children found ourselves going to church. CAC (Obadare), Ibadan .That was the Church we used to go.
My father being a field worker was never at home, and even when he comes he does not care much about religion. His own was to take us to the Recreation club in Ibadan. He plays golf and care less about teaching us religion. But I must commend, he is a very disciplined and straight forward man.

Today as I speak to you, my mum is a Muslim and even practised Islam better than my dad. That has not changed anything. Her uncles, brothers and sisters who are Christians, some are even pastors still relates well with her and we also relate well with them.

Also, I have another brother from different mum but same father who is now a Christian today . His mum is a Christian and he choose to go by that. Finally on this family things, I have a maternal Uncle who of course was born into a christian home but today he is muslim in fact an Alhaji. So we can go on and on.


So when people come up and start condemning one religion for the other, then is either then have had encounteres with religious extremists and confucionist or just decide to hate for not just reason.

If I narrate why my mum left Christianity then that might even degenerate into further arguement.
So people would continue to leave one religion for the other for the best reasons known to them.
But while all these happens, we should not allow that generate into chronic sentiments, hatred, killings and the rest.

I will still repeat, for all that have been following our comments so far on this topic, we are in such of solution to this religious crisis now. That is what I think people would be interested in rather than insulting ourselves. Enough of this insult for God sake. I mean, what has somebody done to you that you can't even soft pedal ? What example are you showing the kids who might me following all us with the use of abusive nomenclature like OLOSI ? It's very barbaric. This is the second time I would be witnessing this. Perhaps you don't know when you point one finger of good to others the remaining fingers points back at you. Likewise when your point a finger of curse at people, the remaining ones goes back to you.

Therefore, while we have the liberty to express how will feel on matters, let us do so in moderation.

May God have mercy on us all.



jimoh lanre said:

Mr. Kola, i will rather believe a fable story than to associate peace to islam. i am not in anyway showing off, that i am in uk, i made reference to uk that we too are victims of islamic dangerous tendencies like muttalab who set off from here to kill, and some of u that post comments here should stop posting ur dirty emails,this isnt ur workshops and what do u think will come out from ur explanation. i felt restraint ever since because i felt Mr frank & urself made a very laudable points, u dont want to leave it at that,one olosi is saying islam is beautiful, still they are those northerners who brought to our people this defamed name. i was a muslim, my mum is still a muslim but for me is not working, just a charade.i subscribe to this speech today by my beloved mentor:

"
Thank you. It is great to be back in London. And it is great that this time, I got to see more of this wonderful city than just the detention centre at Heathrow Airport.


Today I stand before you, in this extraordinary place. Indeed, this is a sacred place. This is, as Malcolm always says, the mother of all Parliaments, I am deeply humbled to have the opportunity to speak before you.


Thank you Lord Pearson and Lady Cox for your invitation and showing my film ‘Fitna’. Thank you my friends for inviting me.


I first have great news. Last Wednesday city council elections were held in the Netherlands. And for the first time my party, the Freedom Party, took part in these local elections. We participated in two cities. In Almere, one of the largest Dutch cities. And in The Hague, the third largest city; home of the government, the parliament and the queen. And, we did great! In one fell swoop my party became the largest party in Almere and the second largest party in The Hague. Great news for the Freedom Party and even better news for the people of these two beautiful cities.


And I have more good news. Two weeks ago the Dutch government collapsed. In June we will have parliamentary elections. And the future for the Freedom Party looks great. According to some polls we will become the largest party in the Netherlands. I want to be modest, but who knows, I might even be Prime Minister in a few months time!


Ladies and gentlemen, not far from here stands a statue of the greatest Prime Minister your country ever had. And I would like to quote him here today: “Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. No stronger retrograde force exists in the World. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step (…) the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” These words are from none other than Winston Churchill wrote this in his book ‘The River War’ from 1899.

Churchill was right.


Ladies and gentlemen, I don’t have a problem and my party does not have a problem with Muslims as such. There are many moderate Muslims. The majority of Muslims are law-abiding citizens and want to live a peaceful life as you and I do. I know that. That is why I always make a clear distinction between the people, the Muslims, and the ideology, between Islam and Muslims. There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam.


Islam strives for world domination. The Quran commands Muslims to exercise jihad. The Quran commands Muslims to establish shariah law. The Quran commands Muslims to impose Islam on the entire world.


As former Turkish Prime Minister Erbakan said: “The whole of Europe will become Islamic. We will conquer Rome”. End of quote.


Libyan dictator Gaddafi said: “There are tens of millions of Muslims in the European continent today and their number is on the increase. This is the clear indication that the European continent will be converted into Islam. Europe will one day soon be a Muslim continent”. End of quote. Indeed, for once in his life, Gaddafi was telling the truth. Because, remember: mass immigration and demographics is destiny!

Islam is merely not a religion, it is mainly a totalitarian ideology. Islam wants to dominate all aspects of life, from the cradle to the grave. Shariah law is a law that controls every detail of life in a Islamic society. From civic- and family law to criminal law. It determines how one should eat, dress and even use the toilet. Oppression of women is good, drinking alcohol is bad.


I believe that Islam is not compatible with our Western way of life. Islam is a threat to Western values. The equality of men and women, the equality of homosexuals and heterosexuals, the separation of church and state, freedom of speech, they are all under pressure because of islamization. Ladies and gentlemen: Islam and freedom, Islam and democracy are not compatible. It are opposite values.

No wonder that Winston Churchill called Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ “the new Quran of faith and war, turgid, verbose, shapeless, bur pregnant with its message”. As you know, Churchill made this comparison, between the Koran and Mein Kampf, in his book ‘The Second World War’, a master piece, for which, he received the Nobel Prize in Literature. Churchill’s comparison of the Quran and ‘Mein Kampf’ is absolutely spot on. The core of the Quran is the call to jihad. Jihad means a lot of things and is Arabic for battle. Kampf is German for battle. Jihad and kampf mean exactly the same.


Islam means submission, there cannot be any mistake about its goal. That’s a given. The question is whether we in Europe and you in Britain, with your glorious past, will submit or stand firm for your heritage.

We see Islam taking off in the West at an incredible pace. Europe is Islamizing rapidly. A lot of European cities have enormous Islamic concentrations. Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels and Berlin are just a few examples. In some parts of these cities, Islamic regulations are already being enforced. Women’s rights are being destroyed. Burqa’s, headscarves, polygamy, female genital mutilation, honour-killings. Women have to go to separate swimming-classes, don’t get a handshake. In many European cities there is already apartheid. Jews, in an increasing number, are leaving Europe.


As you undoubtedly all know, better then I do, also in your country the mass immigration and islamization has rapidly increased. This has put an enormous pressure on your British society. Look what is happening in for example Birmingham, Leeds, Bradford and here in London. British politicians who have forgotten about Winston Churchill have now taken the path of least resistance. They have given up. They have given in.


Last year, my party has requested the Dutch government to make a cost-benefit analysis of the mass immigration. But the government refused to give us an answer. Why? Because it is afraid of the truth. The signs are not good. A Dutch weekly magazine - Elsevier - calculated costs to exceed 200 billion Euros. Last year alone, they came with an amount of 13 billion Euros. More calculations have been made in Europe: According to the Danish national bank, every Danish immigrant from an Islamic country is costing the Danish state more than 300 thousand Euros. You see the same in Norway and France. The conclusion that can be drawn from this: Europe is getting more impoverished by the day. More impoverished thanks to mass immigration. More impoverished thanks to demographics. And the leftists are thrilled.


I don't know whether it is true, but in several British newspapers I read that Labour opened the door to mass immigration in a deliberate policy to change the social structures of the UK. Andrew Neather, a former government advisor and speech writer for Tony Blair and Jack Straw, said the aim of Labour’s immigration strategy was, and I quote, to “rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date”. If this is true, this is symptomatic of the Left.


Ladies and gentlemen, make no mistake: The left is facilitating islamization. Leftists, liberals, are cheering for every new shariah bank being created, for every new shariah mortgage, for every new islamic school, for every new shariah court. Leftists consider Islam as being equal to our own culture. Shariah law or democracy? Islam or freedom? It doesn’t really matter to them. But it does matter to us. The entire leftist elite is guilty of practising cultural relativism. Universities, churches, trade unions, the media, politicians. They are all betraying our hard-won liberties.

Why I ask myself, why have the Leftists and liberals stopped to fight for them? Once the Leftists stood on the barricades for women’s rights. But where are they today? Where are they in 2010? They are looking the other way. Because they are addicted to cultural relativism and dependent on the Muslim vote. They are dependent on mass-immigration.


Thank heavens Jacqui Smith isn’t in office anymore. It was a victory for free speech that a UK judge brushed aside her decision to refuse me entry to your country last year. I hope that the judges in my home country are at least as wise and will acquit me of all charges, later this year in the Netherlands.


Unfortunately, so far they have not done so well. For they do not want to hear the truth about Islam, nor are they interested to hear the opinion of top class legal experts in the field of freedom of expression. Last month in a preliminary session the Court refused fifteen of the eighteen expert-witnesses I had requested to be summoned.


Only three expert witnesses are allowed to be heard. Fortunately, my dear friend and heroic American psychiatrist dr. Wafa Sultan is one of them. But their testimony will be heard behind closed doors. Apparently the truth about Islam must not be told in public, the truth about Islam must remain secret.


Ladies and gentlemen, I’m being prosecuted for my political beliefs. We know political prosecution to exist in countries in the Middle East, like Iran and Saudi-Arabia, but never in Europe, never in the Netherlands.


I’m being prosecuted for comparing the Quran to ‘Mein Kampf’. Ridiculous. I wonder if Britain will ever put the beliefs of Winston Churchill on trial… Ladies and gentlemen, the political trial that is held against me has to stop.


But it is not all about me, not about Geert Wilders. Free speech is under attack. Let me give you a few other examples. As you perhaps know, one of my heroes, the Italian author Oriana Fallaci had to live in fear of extradition to Switzerland because of her anti-Islam book 'The Rage and the Pride'. The Dutch cartoonist Nekschot was arrested in his home in Amsterdam by 10 police men because of his anti-Islam drawings. Here in Britain, the American author Rachel Ehrenfeld was sued by a Saudi businessman for defamation. In the Netherlands Ayaan Hirsi Ali and in Australia two Christian pastors were sued. I could go on and on. Ladies and gentlemen, all throughout the West freedom loving people are facing this ongoing ‘legal jihad’. This is Islamic ‘lawfare’. And, ladies and gentlemen, not long ago the Danish cartoonist Westergaard was almost assassinated for his cartoons.


Ladies and gentlemen, we should defend the right to freedom of speech. With all our strength. With all our might. Free speech is the most important of our many liberties. Free speech is the cornerstone of our modern societies. Freedom of speech is the breath of our democracy, without freedom of speech our way of life our freedom will be gone.


I believe it is our obligation to preserve the inheritance of the brave young soldiers that stormed the beaches of Normandy. That liberated Europe from tyranny. These heroes cannot have died for nothing. It is our obligation to defend freedom of speech. As George Orwell said: “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear”.


Ladies and gentlemen, I believe in another policy, it is time for change. We must make haste. We can’t wait any longer. Time is running out. If I may quote one of my favourite American presidents: Ronald Reagan once said: “We need to act today, to preserve tomorrow”. That is why I propose the following measures, I only mention a few, in order to preserve our freedom:


First, we will have to defend freedom of speech. It is the most important of our liberties. In Europe and certainly in the Netherlands, we need something like the American First Amendment.


Second, we will have to end and get rid of cultural relativism. To the cultural relativists, the shariah socialists, I proudly say: Our Western culture is far superior to the Islamic culture. Don't be affraid to say it. You are not a racist when you say that our own culture is better.

Third, we will have to stop mass immigration from Islamic countries. Because more Islam means less freedom.


Fourth, we will have to expel criminal immigrants and, following denaturalisation, we will have to expel criminals with a dual nationality. And there are many of them in my country.


Fifth, we will have to forbid the construction of new mosques. There is enough Islam in Europe. Especially since Christians in Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Indonesia are mistreated, there should be a mosque building-stop in the West.


And last but not least, we will have to get rid of all those so-called leaders. I said it before: Fewer Chamberlains, more Churchills. Let's elect real leaders.


Ladies and gentlemen. To the previous generation, that of my parents, the word ‘London’ is synonymous with hope and freedom. When my country was occupied by the national-socialists the BBC offered a daily glimpse of hope in my country, in the darkness of Nazi tyranny. Millions of my fellow country men listened to it, underground. The words ‘This is London’ were a symbol for a better world coming soon.


What will be broadcasted forty years from now? Will it still be “This is London”? Or will it be “This is Londonistan”? Will it bring us hope? Or will it signal the values of Mecca and Medina? Will Britain offer submission or perseverance? Freedom or slavery? The choice is yours. And in the Netherlands the choice is ours.


Ladies and gentlemen, we will never apologize for being free. We will and should never give in. And, indeed, as one of your former leaders said: We will never surrender.


Freedom must prevail, and freedom will prevail.


Thank you very much. "

Kolade said:

This message is exclusive for Muslim brothers and Sisters living in the Uk. Others interested can equally explore this opportunity.

A programme titled: 17TH ANNUAL YOUTH CONFERENCE

will be held on the 14th March, 2010. (Waoo, That's my birth day.)

VENUE: ISLAMIC DAWA'H ACADEMY, 140 MELBOURNE ROAD, LEICESTER, LE2 ODS.

Check out the short message below from the organizers:

"Islam needs you to become its ambassador by being a good Muslim and, through your character and conduct,
help correct the misunderstandings that exist about Islam.
Become a shining example for all, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. "


For those outside UK, you can also benefit because the conference will also be streamed live from the organizer's website : www.idauk.org/ayc


let's raise the awareness. Let's stand up and condemn evil wherever it is perpetrated . Let's say No to violence and let's exemplify the peace that Islam means and let us stop the confusion. Let us live by the best conduct as taught by God through his guided prophets.

GOD KNOWS BEST



VENUE:

Kolade said:

Mr Jimoh Lanre,
If I can understand the stage we are now in this far-fetched discussion, it is time for solution. I can appreciate the likes of Mr Frank after expressing the unthinkable as perpetrated by some muslims, he put that aside and suggested his solutions to the religious crises especially as it affect us in Nigeria. Mr John Jang also did, Researcher and couple of others that are numerous to mention have also contributed in this respect. I think I have personally said something on this and perharps could form a team solution with the likes of Mr jang and others in the future if God wills. So I will suggest to you to please help us out with what you feel could be the solution to these religious crises and differences.

Also you don't have to mention where you are as I don't see how that will be relevant to this discussion. Whether UK or US or elsewhere. Some of us are also abroad and that does not guarantee that we see things better than people who have not been opportuned to travel or who feel it's not necessary. Besides, Technology has turned the world into to a global village such that people at home are even sometimes are more advanced on matters than those of us living abroad. On the contrary, if you feel that would be necessary and relative to the much awaited solution, then please go ahead and do so. I hope I am not misunderstood.

I want to believe time for insult, negative expressions has gone in this community of ours. It's time for positive action.
Please let's follow the likes of Mr Frank, after his expressions which of course were due to his experience so far, put that aside and said sometime constructive which could be useful when putting up together, points needed for solving the problem at hand.

For those of us that are Muslims, we owe ourselves the responsibility of doing what we say about Islam. For God sake, how could you expect non Muslims to believe Islam stand for peace when you find some Muslims involved in violent acts? I am not saying that other religion are completely free of violence, but since the emphasis is on Islam now, please be a good ambassador of it wherever you are. Non Muslim's interpretation of Islam is based on the practices of Muslims they have encountered. And so what do you expect them to say when such encounters are nothing to write home about?

May God Almighty forgive us our sins and have mercy on us.




jimoh lanre said:

researcher i dont no if that is a name or a career? pls we appreciate ur strenght that u ve wasted but permit me to say we dont need your email address except if u re selling or advertiser a product here, but if it were about islam and peace let us be, we know what peace means in islam...why is it that alot of u people post email, what are u afraid of?i am living here in uk we have all seen islam fake peace.
Researcher said:

WOW, I THINK NOW WE SHOULD HAVE MORE OF THE EDUCATIVE AND POSITIVE ATITUDE TO DISCUSSIONS LIKE I SEE IN MR FRANKS AND OTHERS COMMENT EXCEPT FOR SOME WHO WOULD STILL NOT ADAPT THIER GOOD NATURE IN DISCUSSIONS. IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM, THE NEXT THING TO DO IS FIND A SOLUTION AND NOT FURTHER CREATE PROBLEMS. I IMAGINE IF THE DISCUSSIONS WE HAVE HAD ON THIS FORUM HAD BEEN IN THE SOLUTION PERSPECTIVE THEN PERHAPS WE WOULD HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF US NOT JUST SHARING VIEWS ON THE FORUM BUT CALLING OURSELVES AND LOOKING TOWARDS MEETING TO FURTHER GALVANISED OUR IDEAS. MANY OF US HAVE BEEN READING THE COMMENTS POSTED ON THIS FORUM BUT DECIDED TO KEEP COOL BECAUSE YOU WOULD WONDER IF ANYTHING YOU SAY WOULD MAKE SENSE TO SOMEONE.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THE NIGERIAN THING HAS EATEN DEEP INSIDE OF US. WE LOVE TO CONDEM AND BLAME RATHER THAN LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS TO OUR PROBLEMS. WE MUST HAVE READ THE STORY OF THE FIVE BLIND MEN WHO SAW AN ELEPHANT AND EACH ONLY TOUCHED A DIFFERENT PART. THERE DISCRIPTION OF THE ELEPHANT WAS OF COURSE DIFFERENT. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DEAL WITH SOMETHING BIG AND ONLY HAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO RELATE WITH A PART OF IT. A TYPICAL EXAMPLE MUST BE MR FRANK AND OTHERS, I MUST SINCERELY APPRECIATE HIS CONCERN BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE YOU MUST HAVE HAD. WHEN SOMEONE SAID ISLAM IS BEAUTIFUL AND ANOTHER PERSON QUESTIONS THAT, YOU WOULD WONDER, DO YOU WANT HIM TO LIE ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE OF ISLAM AND IF SOMEONE SAYS ISLAM IS BAD, THE QUESTION TO ASK IS WHAT ARE THE ISSUES YOU HAVE? I HAVE ALWAYS MAINTAINED THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IS IGNORANCE. EVEN THOSE WHO SAY THEY KNOW DO NOT KNOW. IT IS EQUALLY WRONG FOR ANYBODY TO JUDGE A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE BY THE ACTIONS OF A FEW. A TYPICAL EXAMPLE IS HOW NIGERIANS WOULD ALWAYS CONTEST THE WAY WE ARE TREATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. OUR EXCUSE IS THAT YOU CAN NOT USE THE ACTIONS OF A FEW TO JUDGE THE REST OF US. BUT THIS IS WHAT WE DO TO THOSE WHO ARE MUSLIMS.

THE ISSUE AT HAND IS VIOLENCE, NOTHING MORE, THAT IS THE CONCERN. HOW WE TAKLE IT MUST NOW BE THE OBJECTIVE. LET ME STATE CATEGORICALLY THAT MOST OF ALL THESE VIOLENCE DO NOT START BECAUSE OF ANY RELIGIOUS ISSUE THOUGH THEY MAY END UP WITH IT, THE BOTTOM LINE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. WHATEVER EXAMPLE YOU WANT TO GIVE, A DEEP STUDY WOULD REVEAL THAT THERE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT, SOMETHING NOT RELIGIOUS.

A BEAUTIFUL WAY TO UNDERSTAND IS TO ALWAYS OBSERVE HOW THESE THINGS START, THE ORIGIN OF THE CRISIS. SOMETIMES NOT EVEN FEW DAYS TO THE TIME THE VIOLENCE ERUPTED. A POPULAR EXAMPLE IS THE PALESTINE ISSUE. A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW THAT THIS IS A CRISES THAT DATES BACK TO PERIOD BEFORE MANY OF US WERE BORN BUT WE ARE QUICK TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON THE ISSUE NOW.

I MUST AGREE THAT THERE IS SO MUCH CRISES ACROSS MUSLIM LANDS. THE REAL PICTURE OF THE ISSUE WOULD BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD BY YOU IF YOU REMOVE THE RELIGION OF THE PEOPLE THEN FACE WHATEVER THE CRISES IS. ULTIMATELY YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT THERE IS MORE THAN WHAT MEETS THE EYE. I MUST SAY HERE THAT THE MEDIA HAD BROUGHT USE MORE PROBLEMS THAN SOLUTION.

ASK YOURSELF, HAVE YOU EVER READ AN HEADLINE ABOUT HOW A CRISES WAS SOLVED? WHAT YOU WILL ALWAYS READ IS THE CRISES THAT STARTED, WHY? IT IS BAD NEWS THAT SELL, SHIKENA. THE HOTTEST STORY IS THE BADDEST NEWS. WHAT A MEDIA WE HAVE.

THE OTHER FACTOR OF THESE CRISES IS THE POLITICAL ANGLE. WHEN THERE IS A VIOLENCE, IT IS TO SOMEBODIES ADVANTAGE. THE QUESTION TO ASK IS, WHOSE ADVANTAGE? THE WORLD HAS BECOME A GLOBAL VILLAGE TO THE POINT THAT THE POLITICS OF A PART AFFECTS THE OTHER, PARTICULARLY THE ISSUE OF MUTUAL INTEREST. ITS SIMPLY YOUR SIDE OF THE COIN. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE LOOK AT THESE POLITICAL ANGLES TO THESE CRISES TO HAVE A BETTER PERSPECTIVE

I WOULD APPRECAITE IT IF MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WOULD RATHER ASK QUESTIONS ON THINGS THEY FIND SUPRISING OR CONFUSING OR WRONG BEFORE TAKING SUCH TO BE A FACT. I HAVE SEEN VERSES AND HADITH BEING INTERPRETED IN FUNY WAYS.
EVEN MUSLIMS HAVE SOMETIMES GOT IT WRONG AND NON MUSLIMS TURN THINGS UPSIDE DOWN. LEARING IN ISLAM IN A CLASS MEANS NOTHING, IN FACT YOU MIGHT LEARN THE TAIL AS THE HEAD.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED. THAT IS THE UTMOST SOLUTION TO THESE ISSUES. SOME PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THEY HEARD THIS AND THAT FROM A SCHOLAR, LET ME TELL YOU, MOST SCHOLARS OUT THERE ARE MEDIOCRE.
ANOTHER CHALENGE TO EDUCATION IS WHEN YOU COME WITH YOUR CUP FULL, YOU NEED TO COME WITH YOUR CUP EMPTY. I ADVICE THAT YOU LEARN ISLAM NOT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE A MUSLIM BUT FOR YOU TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE BELIEVE OF OVER A BILLION PEOPLE.

seek and you shall find

I CAN BE CONTACTED ON THIS EMAIL: [email protected]

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kolade on March 6, 2010 at 8:06pm

Titi,
Thanks for the information.

And also thanks for recognising that all Muslims are not terrorist. I guess this set of Muslims do have another Prophet they look unto better than Prophet Muhammad because one of the articles of faith in Islam is to believe in all Prophets Right from Adam ... Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. I guess those Muslims would have to re-examine that article again if they are to follow your story here since all prophets must be believed in as true messengers of God.

Also, in Islam, piety never bear bad fruit, rather it installs God light on you. So Those people you termed Muslim terrorists themselves are also those you referred as having piety. It sounds confusing.

It's really unfortunate how people can pack mountains of lies on someone right away from his childhood known for piety of the highest level. Even the pagans of Mecca who persecuted him knew this but they were against him simply because he denounced their Idols and preach that there is only one God. The Mecca pagans were known for killing female children as they believe they were useless to them. Muhammad came and denounced this and let them know that all are equal in the sight of God whether male or female. He preached equality between slaves and masters. He preached care for the young, the aged, the poor and the needy and the rich should share a percentage of their wealth with the poor.
Those were some of his lessons that Meccan pagans at that time feared he could gain popularity and terminate their tyrannical reign.

Interestingly enough, they were fighting him, persecuting him at the same time kept there money with him because of the trust he has been known for. His nick name was AL-AMIN meaning the trustworthy. And when the persecution was much and has been granted to leave Mecca for the pagans, he still ensure that depositors got their money back despite the fact they were persecuting him. He never allowed sentiments overshadowed his action. Owners should be handed back their property no matter your relationship with them. That was his message.

This is the person that condemn cutting of trees unnecessarily, condemn killing of animals except for food. And even when you are killing the animals for food have compassion with them. How much more human soul.

When he was even served a poisoned food by a woman, he ate the food and then sent for the woman. When the woman came, he mentioned the poison issue to her and would like to know why she did that. She replied that she did that to know truly if he was a prophet of God, that she believed he wouldn't be killed by the poison if he was indeed a prophet of God. Prophet Muhammad left her in peace. This is somebody that never even wished dead those who gave him poison to eat. So how can ordinary insult trigger him to take lives?

This is the same Prophet people said hate Christians or Jews or non Muslims yet he asked some of his followers under severe persecution by the Meccan pagans to migrate to Abyssinia ( a Christian state at that time) which of course was under the rulership of a Christian just ruler.
The Meccan pagans still did not let them be, demanded that the Abyssina Christian ruler sent back the muslims to them.
It was a long story; but the time the Christian ruler listened to what the Muslim stood for, realizing the closeness to his own faith, he refused to hand over them to the pagans. I guess if we have to go by the colour Muhammad has been painted with , then one could have concluded that the Muslims at that time cajoled the learned Abyssnia Christian ruler. May God be pleased with him.

Well, God has given us intellects and I think with that we wouldn't have much trouble in separating lies from the truth.

GOD KNOW BEST.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by titalayo miwa on March 6, 2010 at 8:24pm

KOLA, wen u re ready to ask good question u will knw that u re riding blindly. it ridicuolous u re sounding like mohamed'son or his cousin...forgeting history cant be erased. Hear more:
In studying the life of Mohammed in an unbiased, factual way free of blind adoration for him, we see that Mohammed did not fit the description of a man keeping himself pure before God. In fact, his whole life is depicted as being that of a man living to fulfill his lusts and desires, living a self-centered life at the expense of those who got in his way. This is perhaps most clearly shown in his manifested weakness for women. The Qur'an in Surah 4:3 limits a man to four wives, but Mohammed went well beyond this limit. Mohammed took to himself 16 wives through formal marriage. In addition, he kept two women as slave-concubines, and had four devout Muslim women who "gave" themselves to him as acts of devotion. The "canonical" list of Mohammed's women is given below:

* 1 - Khadijah bint Khuwaylid
* 2 - Sawda bint Zam'a
* 3 - Ayesha bint Abu Bakr
* 4 - Hafsa bint Umar
* 5 - Zaynab bint Khuzaymah
* 6 - Umm Salama Hind bint Abi Umayya
* 7 - Zaynab bint Jahsh
* 8 - Juwayriya bint al-Harith
* 9 - Ramlah bint Abi Sufyan
* 10 - Safiyya bint Huyayy
* 11 - Maymuna bint al-Harith
* 12 - Mary the Coptic Christian (concubine)

Dashti provides a further list of other women who were either full wives, concubines, or devotees of Mohammed, drawn from the Traditions69:

* 13 - Omm Habiba bint Abu-Sufyan
* 14 - Fatima bint Shurayh
* 15 - Hend bint Yazid
* 16 - Asma bint Saba
* 17 - Habla bint Qays
* 18 - Asma bint Nu'man
* 19 - Rayhana (concubine)
* 20 - Omm Sharik (devotee)
* 21 - Zaynab (devotee)
* 22 - Khawla (devotee)

Some notes ought to be made concerning some of these women. His first wife, Khadijah, was his employer while he was still a caravan driver. She was his senior by 15 years, and many indications seem to show that she proposed to him, unusual for Arabian society at the time, but less so when the man was in an inferior social and economic situation to the woman70. His seventh wife, Zaynab bint Jahsh was originally the wife of his adopted son, Zayd. However, Mohammed became smitten with Zaynab, and Zayd offered to divorce her so that she could marry Mohammed. This was carried out, and caused great scandal among the early Muslim followers until Mohammed had a timely revelation.

"Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor: "Retain thou thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved with her, We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that there may be no difficulty to the Believers in marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled." (Surah 33:37)

Poof! Problem solved, and it suddenly became acceptable for men to marry the ex-wives of their sons. Interestingly, it is in this same surah that Mohammed was given a special exemption from the four-wives limit imposed earlier (Surah 33:50).

Mohammed’s twelfth woman, Mary, was a Coptic Christian who was given to Mohammed as a gift from the ruler of Egypt. Bravely refusing to renounce her Coptic Christianity and accept Islam, she refused to marry him, and instead remained his slave. Perhaps most disturbing of all of Mohammed's relations with women is his taking of his third wife, Ayesha. She was six years of age when he "married" her, nine when he consummated the relationship, and she remained his favorite wife throughout the rest of his life71. When he died at the age of 62, she was a mere 18 years old. This episode in Mohammed's life points to very distressing pedophilic tendencies in the man which cannot simply be dismissed on the basis of cultural arguments.

Mohammed's actions give every indication that he was a man driven by his lust for women. The traditions at one point brag about Mohammed's near-mythological sexual capacities, stating that he had the prowess of 40 men, and that in Paradise, he would have that of 8072. Likewise, the traditions record that Mohammed, despite being a prophet, and therefore one who should be on a higher, more spiritual level, nevertheless loved perfume and women more than anything else from the worldly life, and that Mohammed could be recognized when he went out by the perfume he wore73.

Also, Mohammed advocated marrying women for their wealth, beauty, and also as a means of converting women to Islam. "A woman can be married for religion, her fortune, or her beauty. So marry one for the religion." 74 Apparently "love" or "God's will" do not factor into the equation. This also tellingly reveals the reason why so many Muslim men marry non-Muslim women in the West. It's easier to influence a woman towards Islam when a man is married to her, as she seeks to please her husband, and in part explains the greatly unequal rates of conversion to Islam by Western women versus Western men.

Of course, no exposition of Mohammed's perverse attitude towards sexuality would be complete without a look at his version of "Paradise" that would make Hugh Hefner blush with shame. Muslim men are promised 72 young virgins for perpetual enjoyment. For the sake of propriety, I will not include the quotes, but this all is easily seen in the Qur'an, in Suwar 37:40-48, 44:51-55, 52:17-20, 55:56-58, 70-77, 56:7-40, and 78:30-34. Additionally, sodomy with young boys plays a role in the Muslim paradise (Suwar 52:24, 56:17, and 76:19) with these boys being described using much the same language as was employed to describe the virgins. Of course, Islam's paradise has plenty of wine, wealth, and food for the enjoyment of those who have passed on. Mohammed was a man for whom the fulfillment of bodily pleasures was of paramount, and some would say, consuming importance.

Kolade said:

Titi,
Thanks for the information.

And also thanks for recognising that all Muslims are not terrorist. I guess this set of Muslims do have another Prophet they look unto better than Prophet Muhammad because one of the articles of faith in Islam is to believe in all Prophets Right from Adam ... Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. I guess those Muslims would have to re-examine that article again if they are to follow your story here since all prophets must be believed in as true messengers of God.

Also, in Islam, piety never bear bad fruit, rather it installs God light on you. So Those people you termed Muslim terrorists themselves are also those you referred as having piety. It sounds confusing.

It's really unfortunate how people can pack mountains of lies on someone right away from his childhood known for piety of the highest level. Even the pagans of Mecca who persecuted him knew this but they were against him simply because he denounced their Idols and preach that there is only one God. The Mecca pagans were known for killing female children as they believe they were useless to them. Muhammad came and denounced this and let them know that all are equal in the sight of God whether male or female. He preached equality between slaves and masters. He preached care for the young, the aged, the poor and the needy and the rich should share a percentage of their wealth with the poor.
Those were some of his lessons that Meccan pagans at that time feared he could gain popularity and terminate their tyrannical reign.

Interestingly enough, they were fighting him, persecuting him at the same time kept there money with him because of the trust he has been known for. His nick name was AL-AMIN meaning the trustworthy. And when the persecution was much and has been granted to leave Mecca for the pagans, he still ensure that depositors got their money back despite the fact they were persecuting him. He never allowed sentiments overshadowed his action. Owners should be handed back their property no matter your relationship with them. That was his message.

This is the person that condemn cutting of trees unnecessarily, condemn killing of animals except for food. And even when you are killing the animals for food have compassion with them. How much more human soul.

When he was even served a poisoned food by a woman, he ate the food and then sent for the woman. When the woman came, he mentioned the poison issue to her and would like to know why she did that. She replied that she did that to know truly if he was a prophet of God, that she believed he wouldn't be killed by the poison if he was indeed a prophet of God. Prophet Muhammad left her in peace. This is somebody that never even wished dead those who gave him poison to eat. So how can ordinary insult trigger him to take lives?

This is the same Prophet people said hate Christians or Jews or non Muslims yet he asked some of his followers under severe persecution by the Meccan pagans to migrate to Abyssinia ( a Christian state at that time) which of course was under the rulership of a Christian just ruler.
The Meccan pagans still did not let them be, demanded that the Abyssina Christian ruler sent back the muslims to them.
It was a long story; but the time the Christian ruler listened to what the Muslim stood for, realizing the closeness to his own faith, he refused to hand over them to the pagans. I guess if we have to go by the colour Muhammad has been painted with , then one could have concluded that the Muslims at that time cajoled the learned Abyssnia Christian ruler. May God be pleased with him.

Well, God has given us intellects and I think with that we wouldn't have much trouble in separating lies from the truth.

GOD KNOW BEST.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kolade on March 6, 2010 at 8:34pm

THANKS MR FRANK,

I ADMIRE YOUR MATURITY.

GOD WILL GUIDE US ALL AND SHOW US HOW TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH EACH OTHER.
THIS WOULD BE MY LAST COMMENT ON THIS SUBJECT. IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO HAVE GONE SO FAR.
WE'VE ALL EXPRESS OUR VIEWS AND WE SHOULD JUST GIVE PEACE A CHANCE AND STOP POSTING ATTACKS ON PEOPLE WHETHER THEY'RE PROPHET OR FOLLOWERS.

LET LIVE JUDGEMENT FOR GOD AND LETS MOVE FORWARD AS A UNITED NATION.

I WISH ALL OF US SUCCESS IN OUR ENDEAVOURS.

GOD BLESS.

Kolade said:

Titi,
Thanks for the information.

And also thanks for recognising that all Muslims are not terrorist. I guess this set of Muslims do have another Prophet they look unto better than Prophet Muhammad because one of the articles of faith in Islam is to believe in all Prophets Right from Adam ... Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. I guess those Muslims would have to re-examine that article again if they are to follow your story here since all prophets must be believed in as true messengers of God.

Also, in Islam, piety never bear bad fruit, rather it installs God light on you. So Those people you termed Muslim terrorists themselves are also those you referred as having piety. It sounds confusing.

It's really unfortunate how people can pack mountains of lies on someone right away from his childhood known for piety of the highest level. Even the pagans of Mecca who persecuted him knew this but they were against him simply because he denounced their Idols and preach that there is only one God. The Mecca pagans were known for killing female children as they believe they were useless to them. Muhammad came and denounced this and let them know that all are equal in the sight of God whether male or female. He preached equality between slaves and masters. He preached care for the young, the aged, the poor and the needy and the rich should share a percentage of their wealth with the poor.
Those were some of his lessons that Meccan pagans at that time feared he could gain popularity and terminate their tyrannical reign.

Interestingly enough, they were fighting him, persecuting him at the same time kept there money with him because of the trust he has been known for. His nick name was AL-AMIN meaning the trustworthy. And when the persecution was much and has been granted to leave Mecca for the pagans, he still ensure that depositors got their money back despite the fact they were persecuting him. He never allowed sentiments overshadowed his action. Owners should be handed back their property no matter your relationship with them. That was his message.

This is the person that condemn cutting of trees unnecessarily, condemn killing of animals except for food. And even when you are killing the animals for food have compassion with them. How much more human soul.

When he was even served a poisoned food by a woman, he ate the food and then sent for the woman. When the woman came, he mentioned the poison issue to her and would like to know why she did that. She replied that she did that to know truly if he was a prophet of God, that she believed he wouldn't be killed by the poison if he was indeed a prophet of God. Prophet Muhammad left her in peace. This is somebody that never even wished dead those who gave him poison to eat. So how can ordinary insult trigger him to take lives?

This is the same Prophet people said hate Christians or Jews or non Muslims yet he asked some of his followers under severe persecution by the Meccan pagans to migrate to Abyssinia ( a Christian state at that time) which of course was under the rulership of a Christian just ruler.
The Meccan pagans still did not let them be, demanded that the Abyssina Christian ruler sent back the muslims to them.
It was a long story; but the time the Christian ruler listened to what the Muslim stood for, realizing the closeness to his own faith, he refused to hand over them to the pagans. I guess if we have to go by the colour Muhammad has been painted with , then one could have concluded that the Muslims at that time cajoled the learned Abyssnia Christian ruler. May God be pleased with him.

Well, God has given us intellects and I think with that we wouldn't have much trouble in separating lies from the truth.

GOD KNOW BEST.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Researcher on March 8, 2010 at 11:44am

SOMETHING BOTHERS ME REALY. HOW CAN WE DETERMINE IF AN INFORMATION WE HAVE IS THE TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD OR A BLEND OF THE TWO. HOW WOULD WE FEEL IF WE DISCOVER SOMEDAY THAT WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS UPHELD IS ACTUALLY A FALSE.THESE QUESTIONS CAME TO MY MIND READING TITALAYO'S COMMENTS. WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR OPINION BUT WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO TREAD CAREFULLY PARTICULARLY IF OUR OPINION IS BASED ON REPORTS. ONE OF THE IMPORTANT WARNING FROM THE QURAN IS THAT ALL INFORMATION MUST BE VERIFIED SO THAT YOU DO NOT HURT ANYBODY THAT MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN THE MATTER.
THIS IS WHY EVEN MUSLIMS MUST VERIFY WHATEVER ANYBODY SAYS THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAYS. THIS WORLD IS FULL OF VERY DUBIOUS PEOPLE WHO WOULD WANT TO TAKE BENEFIT BY SAYING OR WRITING ABOUT POPULAR PERSONALITIES AND THERE ARE GULIBLE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR IT TOO. THAT IS WHY GOSSIP MAGAZINES HAVE A GOOD MARKET.
APART FROM THOSE WHO WANT TO TAKE BENEFIT, THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP WHO HAVE GOT FAR GREATER OBJECTIVES. YOU MIGHT WANT TO WONDER WHAT THE OBJECTIVE OF DAN BROWN IS IN HIS BOOK, THE DAVINCI CODE. IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE TOO YOU WILL GET THE MESSAGE. CASTING ASPERSION ON PERSONALITY OF JESUS(AS) THAT HE ACTUALLY MARRIED MARY MADALINE AND HAD OFFSPRINGS WHO ENGAGE IN RITUALS AND ALL THE NOSENSE. THE TARGET OF THIS GROUP IS ANYTHING GODLY. THEY COOK UP REFERENCES AND AUTHORITIES AND HAD DRAMA TO THEIR TALES TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE. DAN BROWN IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHERS. PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) OF COURSE COULD NOT HAVE ESCAPED THEM. THESE PEOPLE ARE ATHIEST AND ANY RELIGION HAS ALWAYS COME UNDER THERE ATTACK NOT JUST ISLAM AND CHRISTAINITY. I HAVE EQUALLY READ DIFFERENT BOOKS SOME PORPOTEDLY EVEN WRITTEN BY MUSLIMS THAT PAINT VERY GORY PICTURES OF THE PROPHET AND HIS COMPANIONS. ALL THESE BOOKS AND THEIR AUTHORS ARE LIARS. THERE ARE SOME THAT MIGHT DECIDE TO EULOGISE THE MEN OF GOD EVEN ABOVE WHAT THEY HAVE DESCRIBED THEMSELVES TO BE. SUCH PEOPLE ARE STILL LIARS.
PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH WHATEVER WE READ OR HEAR, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE VERIFY. SOMEONE TOLD YOU THAT A FRIEND SAID THIS OR THAT, PLEASE VERIFY. YOUR COLLEGUE AT THE OFFICE SUSPECTED SOMETHING AND TOLD YOU ABOUT IT, PLS VERIFY. THIS WAY, WE WOULD ALWAYS ENSURE THAT THE INFORMATION WE AHVE ARE FACTUAL BUT NOT TALES AND THERE CAN BE ALWAYS BE A PEACEFUL ATMOSPHERE ARROUND US.

ABOUT THE PROPHETS MARRIAGE AND ALL THAT, KOLADE AND OTHERS HAVE GIVEN US THE BACKGROUND. FOR OTHERS WHO MIGHT STILL HAVE ISSUES WITH IT, LET ME PUT A SCENERIO TO US. IN SUB SAHARA AFRICA, ITS THE CUSTOM FOR A MAN TO MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE AND NO AUTHORITY WILL ASCRIBE THIS TO LUST. WHY? THE CONDITION AND NATURE OF THE COMUNITY AT THAT TIME REQURE THAT THE MAN INCREASES HIS WORK FORCE FOR ECONOMIC STRENGHT PARTICULARLY WHEN SLAVES WERE TOO EXPENSIVE. THE OPTION IS TO MARY MORE WOMEN, WHO WOULD GIVE BIRTH TO AS MANY CHILDREN AS POSIBLE. IF THIS COULD BE A REASON FOR AN AFRICAN, WHAT COULD BE A REASON FOR AN ARAB? WHENEVER WE WANT TO CREATE ISSUES WE SIMPLY PUT UP MULTIPLE SCALE OF JUDGEMENT. WE ALL LOVE JESUS(AS), ISNT IT? I IMAGINE IF HE WERE TO LIVE AMONG US NOW WALKING THE SREETS WITH A SINGLE GARMENT, A PAIR OF SLIPPERS AND WITHOUT A HOUSE SAYING HE HAS BEEN SENT BY GOD. WOULD WE BELIEVE HIM? I AM SURE WE WOULD QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY USING OUR SENSE OF JUDGEMENT THIS DAYS BUT THAT IS THE LIFE THAT JESUS(AS) LIVED.

LET US JUST BE STRAIGHT ABOUT THESE THINGS. DIG FOR THE FACTS AND THE TRUTH.

LANRE, I AM SUPRISED THAT YOU FIND AN EMAIL ADDRESS SO REPUGNANT. THIS IS A FORUM WHERE WE ARE TO SHARE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE FURTHER CONTACT AND DISCUSS SOME OTHER ISSUES WITH. LET ME ALSO INFORM YOU THAT THERE ARE OTHER FORUM THAT WILL PUBLISH YOUR EMAIL ON ANY COMMENT THAT YOU POST. ITS JUST A MEANS FOR PEOPLE TO CONTACT YOU. PLS TAKE THINGS EASY.

I PRAY THAT GOD SOFTENS OUR HEART SUCH THAT OUR GOOD NATURE WILL ALWAYS ON DISPLAY

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by titalayo miwa on March 8, 2010 at 1:33pm

RESEARCHER,YA RE FUNNY ND PEOPLE WHO RE EASILY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH TRUTH TEND TO JUMP UP ND DOWN TO DEFEND THEIR EMPTINESS...AS U SAID,I PUT IT TO YA DAT SUMDAY YA WILL DISCOVER THAT WAT YA UPHELD ABT MOHAMMAD IS FALSE I BET YA.

YA PRETENCE TO COVER UP WITH DAN VINCI FICTIONAL FILM IS NOT FITTING. DAN BROWN HIMSELF MADE THE CLARIFICATION AND NO BLOOD WAS SHED. MOHAMMAD,EVERYBODY KNOWS DAT HE LIVED A LIFE OF PROMISCUITY, WLD U DENY HE MARRIED A GIRL OF 6 YR OLD AND CONSUMMATED HER MARRIAGE AT 9?

BETA KEEP ALL YA WANNA SAY TO YASELF, I AM NT INTERESTED HISTORY IS HISTORY! IF YA RE NT TIRED LIKE MR.KOLADE,MR.FRANK AND CO., THEN I'M READY FOR YA
LEST I FORGET YA ISLAMIC FULANI HAD FULFILED MOHAMMED'S RETALIATORY REPRISAL ATTACK, YA CAN CELEBRATE NOW.BARBARIC ANIMALS.



Researcher said:

SOMETHING BOTHERS ME REALY. HOW CAN WE DETERMINE IF AN INFORMATION WE HAVE IS THE TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD OR A BLEND OF THE TWO. HOW WOULD WE FEEL IF WE DISCOVER SOMEDAY THAT WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS UPHELD IS ACTUALLY A FALSE.THESE QUESTIONS CAME TO MY MIND READING TITALAYO'S COMMENTS. WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR OPINION BUT WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO TREAD CAREFULLY PARTICULARLY IF OUR OPINION IS BASED ON REPORTS. ONE OF THE IMPORTANT WARNING FROM THE QURAN IS THAT ALL INFORMATION MUST BE VERIFIED SO THAT YOU DO NOT HURT ANYBODY THAT MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN THE MATTER.
THIS IS WHY EVEN MUSLIMS MUST VERIFY WHATEVER ANYBODY SAYS THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAYS. THIS WORLD IS FULL OF VERY DUBIOUS PEOPLE WHO WOULD WANT TO TAKE BENEFIT BY SAYING OR WRITING ABOUT POPULAR PERSONALITIES AND THERE ARE GULIBLE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR IT TOO. THAT IS WHY GOSSIP MAGAZINES HAVE A GOOD MARKET.
APART FROM THOSE WHO WANT TO TAKE BENEFIT, THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP WHO HAVE GOT FAR GREATER OBJECTIVES. YOU MIGHT WANT TO WONDER WHAT THE OBJECTIVE OF DAN BROWN IS IN HIS BOOK, THE DAVINCI CODE. IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE TOO YOU WILL GET THE MESSAGE. CASTING ASPERSION ON PERSONALITY OF JESUS(AS) THAT HE ACTUALLY MARRIED MARY MADALINE AND HAD OFFSPRINGS WHO ENGAGE IN RITUALS AND ALL THE NOSENSE. THE TARGET OF THIS GROUP IS ANYTHING GODLY. THEY COOK UP REFERENCES AND AUTHORITIES AND HAD DRAMA TO THEIR TALES TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE. DAN BROWN IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHERS. PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) OF COURSE COULD NOT HAVE ESCAPED THEM. THESE PEOPLE ARE ATHIEST AND ANY RELIGION HAS ALWAYS COME UNDER THERE ATTACK NOT JUST ISLAM AND CHRISTAINITY. I HAVE EQUALLY READ DIFFERENT BOOKS SOME PORPOTEDLY EVEN WRITTEN BY MUSLIMS THAT PAINT VERY GORY PICTURES OF THE PROPHET AND HIS COMPANIONS. ALL THESE BOOKS AND THEIR AUTHORS ARE LIARS. THERE ARE SOME THAT MIGHT DECIDE TO EULOGISE THE MEN OF GOD EVEN ABOVE WHAT THEY HAVE DESCRIBED THEMSELVES TO BE. SUCH PEOPLE ARE STILL LIARS.
PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH WHATEVER WE READ OR HEAR, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE VERIFY. SOMEONE TOLD YOU THAT A FRIEND SAID THIS OR THAT, PLEASE VERIFY. YOUR COLLEGUE AT THE OFFICE SUSPECTED SOMETHING AND TOLD YOU ABOUT IT, PLS VERIFY. THIS WAY, WE WOULD ALWAYS ENSURE THAT THE INFORMATION WE AHVE ARE FACTUAL BUT NOT TALES AND THERE CAN BE ALWAYS BE A PEACEFUL ATMOSPHERE ARROUND US.

ABOUT THE PROPHETS MARRIAGE AND ALL THAT, KOLADE AND OTHERS HAVE GIVEN US THE BACKGROUND. FOR OTHERS WHO MIGHT STILL HAVE ISSUES WITH IT, LET ME PUT A SCENERIO TO US. IN SUB SAHARA AFRICA, ITS THE CUSTOM FOR A MAN TO MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE AND NO AUTHORITY WILL ASCRIBE THIS TO LUST. WHY? THE CONDITION AND NATURE OF THE COMUNITY AT THAT TIME REQURE THAT THE MAN INCREASES HIS WORK FORCE FOR ECONOMIC STRENGHT PARTICULARLY WHEN SLAVES WERE TOO EXPENSIVE. THE OPTION IS TO MARY MORE WOMEN, WHO WOULD GIVE BIRTH TO AS MANY CHILDREN AS POSIBLE. IF THIS COULD BE A REASON FOR AN AFRICAN, WHAT COULD BE A REASON FOR AN ARAB? WHENEVER WE WANT TO CREATE ISSUES WE SIMPLY PUT UP MULTIPLE SCALE OF JUDGEMENT. WE ALL LOVE JESUS(AS), ISNT IT? I IMAGINE IF HE WERE TO LIVE AMONG US NOW WALKING THE SREETS WITH A SINGLE GARMENT, A PAIR OF SLIPPERS AND WITHOUT A HOUSE SAYING HE HAS BEEN SENT BY GOD. WOULD WE BELIEVE HIM? I AM SURE WE WOULD QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY USING OUR SENSE OF JUDGEMENT THIS DAYS BUT THAT IS THE LIFE THAT JESUS(AS) LIVED.

LET US JUST BE STRAIGHT ABOUT THESE THINGS. DIG FOR THE FACTS AND THE TRUTH.

LANRE, I AM SUPRISED THAT YOU FIND AN EMAIL ADDRESS SO REPUGNANT. THIS IS A FORUM WHERE WE ARE TO SHARE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE FURTHER CONTACT AND DISCUSS SOME OTHER ISSUES WITH. LET ME ALSO INFORM YOU THAT THERE ARE OTHER FORUM THAT WILL PUBLISH YOUR EMAIL ON ANY COMMENT THAT YOU POST. ITS JUST A MEANS FOR PEOPLE TO CONTACT YOU. PLS TAKE THINGS EASY.

I PRAY THAT GOD SOFTENS OUR HEART SUCH THAT OUR GOOD NATURE WILL ALWAYS ON DISPLAY

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kolade on March 8, 2010 at 9:47pm

BRETHREN,

PLEASE PARDON ME FOR COMING UP ONCE MORE AFTER I PLEDGED NOT TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION WHICH HAS METAMORPHOSIZED INTO A BLIND RELIGIOUS DEBATE .

HOWEVER, I COULD JUST PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AFTER READING IN THE DAILIES THE LATEST REPRISAL ATTACK IN JOS.

THIS IS SERIOUS.

THE SOUL OF THOSE INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN DYING VIRTUALLY ON A DAILY BASIS WOULDN'T BE HAPPY WITH US IF WE FAIL TO CONDEMN THIS GENOCIDE, AND THAT'S WHY I AM COMMENTING.

ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US THAT ARE MUSLIMS SHOULD STAND UP AND CONDEMN THOSE CRIMINALS WHOM I READ ON THE DAILIES TO BE FULANI S WHOM WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE LABELLED MUSLIMS.

IF YOU'RE NOT IN THE POSITION TO CHANGE THE SITUATION AT THE MOMENT, THEN YOU CAN STILL DO SOMETHING BY CONDEMNING THEIR SATANIC ACTS, AS KEEPING MUTE WOULD MEAN THAT YOU ARE OKAY WITH WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. PLEASE LET US CONDEMN EVIL WHEREVER IT IS PERPETRATED.

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE PEACE IN THE NORTH? IF WE TAKE RELIGIOUS CRISIS STATISTICS IN NIGERIA, AM SURE THE NORTH WOULD TAKE NOTHING LESS THAN 90% . WHAT DO WE ATTRIBUTE TO THIS?

A GROUP (FROM COMMENTERS FROM THIS FORUM) ARE OF THE OPINION IT IS THE MUSLIM -CHRISTIANS FACTOR, I WOULD SAY NO BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS WORKING AND LIVING TOGETHER IN PEACE IN THE SOUTH, ESPECIALLY SOUTH WEST WHERE I COME FROM. SO IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING BEYOND RELIGION. WE HEARD OF CASES WHEN EVEN MUSLIMS FROM OTHER TRIBES IN NIGERIA OTHER THAN THE NORTH
HAVE NOT BEING SPARED BY THIS CRIMINALS WHOSE YARDSTICK FOR ASSASSINATION IS NOT UNDERSTOOD.


ALSO, TAKE KWARA STATE FOR EXAMPLE. THE ISLAMIC AWARENESS THERE SURPASSES THAT OF EVERY OTHER STATES DOWNWARD, INCLUDING SOME STATES FROM THE NORTH. ILORIN IS A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH WHEN TALKING ABOUT ISLAM IN NIGERIA. DESPITE THAT, I COULD NOT RECOLLECT CRISES BETWEEN THE MAJORITY MUSLIMS IN KWARA STATE AND THE MINORITY CHRISTIANS THERE. THERE COULD BE TENSIONS BUT CERTAINLY NOT DESTROYING OF LIFE AND PROPERTIES. THEY HAVE ALL LIVE IN PEACE. AND SO THIS IS ANOTHER POINT TO PROVE THAT MUSLIM-CHRISTIAN FACTOR IS NOT THE KEY PROBLEM TO THE NORTH CRISES.

SO, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

CAN WE SAY AN AVERAGE NORTHERNER IS TYPICALLY AGGRESSIVE AND INTOLERANT ? APOLOGIES TO THE NORTHERNERS BUT QUESTIONS LIKE THIS IS NOW NECESSARY IN VIEW OF THESE RECURRING CRISES.

ALSO, WHERE WERE THE SECURITY MEN, THE SOLDIERS AND THE REST, WHEN ALL THESE WERE HAPPENING?

YOU WON'T FIND THEM TO PREVENT THE MASSACRE, BUT ONLY WHEN THE EVIL DEED IS DONE THAT'S WHEN THEY SHOW UP; MEDICINE AFTER DEATH. IT'S A SHAME. WHEN THEY ARE EVEN AROUND, REPORTS IN THE MEDIA HAVE MADE US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WERE ALWAYS SIDING, SUPPORTING ONE GROUP OVER THE OTHER.
AT LEAST JUDGING BY C.A.N PETITION ON THE ARMY GOC ROLE . WE COULD SAY THIS WASN'T TRUE BUT IF IT DID NOT REALLY HAPPEN, I DON'T THINK C.A.N WOULD HAVE PETITIONED. IF THE GOVERNMENT REALLY MEANT PEACE FOR IT'S PEOPLE, I EXPECTED THAT THE ARMY GOC SHOULD HAVE BEEN POSTED ELSEWHERE AND A NEW PERSON BE BROUGHT IN AND LETS SEE WHETHER HE WOULD BE PETITIONED TOO. WHAT KIND OF NATION IS THIS?
GOD WILL HELP US OUT.

WHILE WE'RE STILL WORKING OUT THE FORMULA FOR PEACE IN THE NORTH, WE PRAY THAT THE SOULS OF THE INNOCENT ONES SHOULD REST IN PEACE. WE EQUALLY PRAY THAT THE CRIMINALS BE BROUGHT TO BOOK SOONEST.

AT LEAST IF THEY ARE PUNISHED, OTHERS WOULD THINK TWICE BEFORE FOLLOWING. BUT IN A SITUATION WHERE THE CRIMINALS ARE ALLOWED TO PERPETRATE EVIL WITHOUT BEING PUNISHED, IT'S NOT HEALTHY FOR THE SYSTEM.
HOWEVER, WHICHEVER WAY WE HANDLE THE MATTER, GOD ALMIGHTY WHO IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION WOULD ALWAYS SOUGHT THINGS OUT.

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Permalink Reply by Abdullahi Al-Hassan on March 9, 2010 at 11:57am

Jones have forgotten that all the other religions of the world unite against islam. from israel ( ma Allah curse be on them) to denmark (la anatullah) and to every part of the word. from killing of muslims in the middle east by israel, england and america and the abuse of prophet Mohammad (SAW) in europe and the abuse of Qur'an everywhere in the world. you have to remember all these things. Islam teaches us to live in peace with all lovers of peace, Islam has never allow us to fight except to depend ourselves and our properties.

Jones said:

If Islam is a peaceful religion as the muslims try to defend it. Why is Islam at war with every other religion on earth even among itself? We have about a thousand religions on earth and it´s a common knowledge that Islam is the religion that is causing over 75% of all religious related troubles on earth.
One may find it difficult to name the most peaceful religion on earth at first thought but everybody can tell the most troublesome religion on earth without a second thought.

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Permalink Reply by Kolade on March 9, 2010 at 12:31pm

ABDULLAH,

I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER YOU SAW MY LAST COMMENT ON THE REPRISAL ATTACK IN JOS.
WHY CAN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING ON THIS AND STOP REPLYING JONES. JONES IS ENTILTLED TO HIS OPINION AND YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOURS, AGREED. ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THAT THE TWO MAJOR RELIGION DO NOT APPROVE OF VIOLENCE. BUT HOW TO YOU THEN EXONERATE RELIGION FROM THESE KNOWING FULLY WELL THE TRIBES INVOLVED BELONG TO A PARTICULAR FAITH? AND SO WHAT I PERSONALLY EXPECT FROM YOU IS TO COME UP AND CONDEMN THAT ATTACK IRRESPECTIVE OF WHO THE OPPRESSORS WERE. PEOPLE DYING HERE ARE HUMAN BEING FOR GOD SAKE, CHRISTIAN OR MUSLIM. HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED THAT BEFORE? IF WE CONTINUE THIS WAY, YOU CAN EXPECT THAT ANOTHER REPRISAL ATTACK FROM THE OPPRESSED WOULD BE AT CORNER SOON. MUST WE WIPE OUT OURSELVES BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS FANATICISM?
ENOUGH OF THIS COUNTER ARGUEMENTS AND LETS FACE THE REALITY ON GROUND.

THAT'S ABOUT THAT.

MEANWHILE I CAME ACROSS THIS WRITE UP BY PIUS ADESANMI WHILE SEARCHING FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

I GUESS IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO THE HOUSE. IT'S ACTUALLY LONG BUT PLEASE BE PATIENT TO READ TO THE END.

GOD BLESS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22
AUG
2009 Dewdrops Of Memory: Isanlu And The Islam That I Knew

By Pius Adesanmi
22 August 2009


Léopold Sédar Senghor was unable to reconcile the contradictory identities of France. There was a France that proclaimed Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity but was at the centre of slavery and colonial brutality. There was a France that gave Senghor everything, including the opportunity to become the first African writer to narrowly miss the Nobel Prize for Literature even before Wole Soyinka became a probable Nobel and sentiments of Chinua Achebe’s continuous omission gained currency, but at the same time organized colonial forced labour and massacres in Africa, especially the massacre at Thiaroye in Senegal, Senghor’s homeland. Faced with these agonizing contradictions, Senghor penned these famous lines in one of his Négritude poems: “Oh Lord, put away from my memory France which is not France, this mask of pettiness and hatred over the face of France”.
France which is not France! The France that captured and sold slaves; the France that colonized and neo-colonized; the France that piled up corpses from Haiti to Algeria via Vietnam; the France of hatred and pettiness. That is the France that Senghor couldn’t recognize in the France that he knew: the France that made him one of Africa’s most famous Polymaths; the France that made him one of the world’s greatest poets. Every time I think about the Islam that came into my consciousness during my formative years in Nigeria, the Islam I related to because of its unavoidable presence and alterity in my world, I feel an overwhelming sense of the Senghorian dilemma. Recently, I experienced the full weight of Senghor’s anguish as I contemplated Boko Haram’s mountain of corpses displayed all over the net – the contemptible rulers of Nigeria still largely underestimate the evidentiary power of the internet. A religion whose ubiquitous presence defined part of my youth insists on turning the Nigeria of my adulthood into one vast necropolis.
Hijacked by some of the worst criminals Nigeria has to offer in her prurient ruling class and turned into a political weapon that consistently instrumentalizes deliberately pauperized youths to deadly ends, what once passed as familiar Islam is defamiliarized beyond recognition. Yet you cannot deny knowing this Islam for you are bound by the cultural warrant of the Yoruba proverb: oju to mo eni ri ko le l’oun o mo eni mo (people or things once known cannot be unknown). If, according to this Yoruba proverb, you cannot now unknow Islam because you once knew her, you are at least at liberty to acknowledge the disconnect between what you knew and what now is. Hence my own Senghorian lament: what is this Islam which is not Islam? What is this thing wearing a mask of pettiness and hatred as it rages annually through northern Nigeria, swimming in a river of Nigerian blood?
The Islam that I knew was already in full swing decades before my head kissed the earth of Isanlu, my home town in Yagba East Local Government Area of Kogi State. As is the case all over Nigeria and Africa, life in Isanlu was suffused in colourful forms of traditional spiritual expression until Christianity arrived in the early 20th century and things began to fall apart. Of the scores of Isanlu rituals and traditional festivals my maternal grandfather told me about as a kid, I met only the Ogun, Sango, Egungun, new yam, and a handful of other festivals and they were all in Intensive Care Unit at the hospital after life-threatening injuries sustained from contact with Christianity. I still have vague recollections of the severance of the neck of that propitiatory Ogun dog and the subsequent procession through the town by Ogun adherents whom my outraged Catholic parents dismissed as idol worshippers and pagans. Sadly, Ogun and Sango festivals did not make it. They perished in Isanlu somewhere in my teenage years. Somehow, I still think Ogun and Sango were lucky to have died peacefully in the hands of orthodox Christianity like Catholicism and ECWA. Imagine what manner of undignifying death Pentecostalism – which came later - would have visited on them.
To survive, Egungun (masquerades) and new yam festivals had to devise ways of dealing with Christianity, the impertinent mosquito that elected permanent residence on their scrotum. Egungun had to “de-spiritualize” or “de-paganize” itself and become an annual Isanlu Day cultural festival in order to be left in peace by Christians. Today, the annual Egungun festival in Isanlu has zero connection with spirits and ancestors. It is just a secular aesthetic ceremony meant to entertain people (one month before Easter!) and to tease the camera lenses of curious European and American visitors. I have only just launched a private initiative to find, buy, and save some of the masks before they are destroyed by Enoch Adeboye’s Pentecostal soldiers in Isanlu. Or before an enterprising European or American beats me to it! I don’t want my two-year-old daughter to have to pay to see Isanlu Egungun masks in a European or American museum in the future. That is why I still cannot visit Africa Collections in museums in Paris and London. I cannot pay to see my own stolen property.
The new yam festival took more radical steps to survive the onslaught of Christianity: it simply passed (like African American ‘passing’) and became a Christian ritual! I wonder why scholars of Africa have devoted scant attention to this interesting phenomenon of an ancestral ritual passing. The new yam festival simply became part of the annual harvest and thanksgiving activities on the calendar of every Christian denomination in Isanlu, especially my local parish of the Catholic Church. In fact, I knew it exclusively as a Christian rite until I became a serious student of my culture and history. In Isanlu, you took the first and choicest yam harvest from your farm to the Christian altar – Chinua Achebe’s readers should bear in mind where the people took their yams to after the fall of Ezeulu. That is why Achebe is more than fiction for some of us. In essence, nobody born in my generation in Isanlu and other parts of Yagba land has any memory of the new yam festival as a traditional ritual. For my generation, it is an important feature of the Christian calendar!
In essence, the people of Isanlu are predominantly Christians whose grandparents and great grandparents followed the familiar script of encounter with European missionarization. I would put Isanlu at 95% Christians. The regular denominations held sway – Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, and ECWA. There were also the Africanized white garment aladura denominations. The hurricane of Pentecostalism would breeze in ferociously only in the 1980s. I have yet to study how Islam crept into this almost seamless shift from Yoruba spiritualities to Christianity in Isanlu but my home town has always had an indigenous Moslem minority, located mostly in the Bagido/Mopo axis of the town. By the late 1970s, itinerant Fulani herdsmen, who used to guide their cattle annually through our farmlands – causing significant damage to crops but allowing us to feast on kilishi, wara, fura, and nono – requested land to settle. Kabiyesi and his council of baales deliberated and actually gave them land and space close to the Oba’s palace. Thus was born in the early 1980s the part of Isanlu we now call Sabon Gari or Sabo for short – with its typical Hausa-Fulani suya market layout – swelling the Moslem population of Isanlu. The children and grandchildren of these Hausa-Fulani settlers now speak mostly Yagba dialect and Yoruba. With the wild theories of non-Yorubaness one encounters in respect of Lagos by ferocious appropriators of other people’s patrimony these days, let’s hope that these Hausa-Fulani children of immigrant parents will not wake up one day and declare with postmodern fiat that Isanlu is actually not Yagba land!
The Isanlu of my formative years was thus an interesting theatre of non-violent coexistence between dominant Christianity, minority Islam, and whatever was left precariously of Yoruba spiritualities. The relationship between Christianity and Islam in Isanlu is even more interesting and will detain me for the rest of this essay. Virtually every Christian denomination and the Moslems founded a primary and secondary school in Isanlu. For instance, the Catholics owned the local cottage hospital, two primary schools, and Saint Kizito’s College. My father reigned supreme as Principal of Saint Kizito’s College in the 1970s before he was transferred to head Saint Augustine’s College in Kabba in 1978. The Moslem community in Isanlu owned Ansar-Ud-Deen (we called it Ansaru) primary school and Oluyori Muslim Comprehensive High School. My first teenage exploratory kiss with my one true love in fact took place in the corridors of Ansaru.
For some reason I need to study seriously now that I am assessing Isanlu closely, none of these educational institutions discriminated in their admission policy. Parents enrolled their children freely in any school of their choice without religious considerations. Thus, the Catholic primary schools had lots of ECWA, Anglican, and Moslem pupils. Ansaru probably had more Christian than Muslims students, given Isanlu’s dense Christian population. Christian teachers taught at Ansaru; Moslem teachers taught at the Christian schools. The ECWA mother of my first true love was once Headmistress at Ansaru. My best friend, a Pentecostal, attended Oluyori Muslim High School.
These constant flows between faiths did not stop at the level of educational institutions. The faiths worked out unwritten codes of collaboration and mutual co-presence by sharing one another’s celebrations. I remember our annual Catholic thanksgiving in September. Donation time and our Catechist, Mr. Alegbemi, would mount the rostrum and make a roll call of every Christian denomination in Isanlu. Each delegation – Baptist, Anglican, Methodist, ECWA, CAC, etc - would rise up when announced and dance to the altar with their envelope to the accompaniment of inspirational choruses by the host choir and a generous shower of holy water by the officiating priest, with yours truly holding the water bowl as altar boy. The last on Mr. Alegbemi’s list were always representatives from Isanlu Mosque. The Moslem delegation would also approach the altar with their envelope. The following week, it was the turn of another Christian denomination and the scenario that played out last week at the Catholic church would be repeated. Thus, from September through November of every year, the entire Isanlu community moved from one church to another, celebrating the host church’s annual harvest/ikore festival. And these celebrations always included a delegation from the Mosque. Dewdrops of memory…
The celebrations rolled into Christmas and New Year festivities which the Moslem community also celebrated with us. Christmas day, after Mass, my mother would dish out the rice and chicken and load the steaming plates on trays that we the children must carry to designated partakers of her Christmas largesse. I still recall my resentment and bitterness that, after my father, the choicest parts of the chicken went to the white Catholic priests. I would grumble all the way to Church with that tray of rice and chicken meant for Reverend Fathers Léo Leblanc and Gérard Fournier on my head. I had more reason to be unhappy if Bishop Alexius Makozi (now Bishop of Port Harcourt Diocese) happened to be around. That meant a definitive death sentence for two cocks (roosters) that I had been told belonged to me and that I had fed conscientiously throughout the year – I would be lucky if I got the intestines, legs, and necks of the unfortunate fowls! My cousins and nephews carried similar trays of food that my mother had dished out for an Alhaji here, an Alhaja there, and other members of the Isanlu Moslem community. Dewdrops of memory…
The Moslems too had their celebrations and festivals that involved the Isanlu Christian community. My favorite was the return from pilgrimage by any Isanlu Moslem who had been privileged to go to Mecca. What a feast! We the children, Christians and Moslems alike, would form a long procession through the town with the new Alhaji or Alhaja, singing and dancing:
Barika re oh eh
Barika re oh ah
Alhaji to re Mecca to bo
Barika re

(Congratulations
To the faithful
Who went to Mecca
And is back among us)
The procession ended at the new Alhaji’s or Alhaja’s house with eating, drinking (not alcohol o!) and merriment. We the Christians joined in Islamic choruses offering thanks and praises to Allah for the safe return of that son or daughter of Isanlu from Mecca. The entire Isanlu community celebrated every Moslem festival. Between inter-denominational and inter-religious festivities and trans-religious educational institutions, growing up the way I did in Isanlu meant encountering Islam as a member of the family even though no member of my immediate or extended family was a Moslem. Dewdrops of memory…
There were of course minor tensions. The occasional flash of anger when, as children playing football after classes, a Christian mocked the faith of the Moslems as imo lile (difficult religion) – a contraction of which is the popular Yoruba cognomen for Islam, imole. That was the most serious denigration of Islam that I knew growing up. To put the impertinent Christian kid in his place, we would join our offended Muslim playmates in singing:
E ye pe Musulumi loni mole
Elesin Isilamu ki se mole
Elesin alafia ki se mole
Eni ba pe Musulumi l’oni mole
Ko kewu ri, ko bere
A lai mo kan ni

(Call not the Muslim
An adherent of a difficult faith
A Religion of peace it is
If you have never prayed, never inquired
Yet label the Muslim faithful
You are just ignorant)
Some of these boyhood quarrels ultimately ended at home with parents on all sides enjoining all parties to respect one another’s faiths and to remember that we were all omo Isanlu. Boyhood passed, young adulthood came. Location: University of Ilorin mini-campus. My undergraduate years came before the era of sanguinary campus cultism in Nigeria. Apart from our studies, all we knew were the excitement of aluta, police tear gas, and the menace of campus Pentecostal fellowships. Campus born again Christians (SUs) could never be content to assemble for fellowship in one or two large groups in consideration of other members of the campus community. Rather, following the bad example of the public nuisance value of their parent organizations on the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway, scores of little sub-groups answering every name from Tabernacle to Maranatha, from Deeper Life to Rhema, from Redeem to Mountain of Fire via Living Faith and Christ Embassy, would take over every available lecture room, the one trying to outscream the other, as they spoke in tongues and invited the Lord’s fire on powers, principalities, dominions, and other enemies all night long. A group of five fellowshipping students could take over a 100-seater lecture room, screaming in tongues all night. This made the campus very hostile for those of us who needed to study to pass exams. Those wailing all night were already assured of the Pentecostal miracle of passing without studying. Dewdrops of memory…
The Islam I met as an undergraduate at this Pentecostalism-infested mini-campus of the University of Ilorin was not the Caliphal Islam of the town of Ilorin proper. I remember it now only as an Islam of early morning feasting and celebration during the Islamic fasting season. That was a season of early morning largesse and abundance that my friends and I, all Christians, looked forward to! The fasting Muslim students had to wake up every morning to break their fast. They called it sari in their local Islamic parlance. I guess there is something in their religion that enjoined them to share that meal happily with their friends and neighbours, irrespective of religious differences. We waited for the early morning call of their muezzin who would scream in the hostel corridors every morning: “Wake up! Wake up! It’s time for sari!” We the Christians would be the first to wake up and start the rounds from room to room, inviting ourselves to the meals of Muslim students! You only need to remember the financial precariousness of undergraduate life to appreciate the importance of this awoof (free) Moslem breakfast that I never missed in my four years of undergraduate life. Dewdrops of memory…
The Islam I encountered from Isanlu to Ilorin in my formative years was not just about awoof food and festivities. That Islam also fed my mind and expanded my world. I have written about my father’s vast family library in one of my longer biographical essays. Alfred Oludare Adesanmi despised a mind that didn’t devour books daily and he never stopped buying books and expanding his personal library till he died in 2007. I tearfully recall now the hours I had to spend reading in his company in that library – with a rap on the head if I forgot what he told me about the Almoravids or the Hamitic hypothesis yesterday – while regretting the five-a-side football game of “set” I was missing with my friends, hoping he would let me go before the end of the game and spare me the exaggerated accounts of my friends the following day at school. “Ah, Pius, game ana yen gbona!” Very hot game! You missed o! Dewdrops of memory…
That expansive library became my most precious inheritance as his only son when he died. Dad was also a trained historian, with a B.A and an M.A in African history. He was half way into a Ph.D in African history at the Ahmadu Bello University, focusing on the trans-saharan trade, when his health failed him and he abandoned the programme in the mid-1980s. He never really recovered from that illness. Because he was in the ABU tradition of African history, his library contained impressive materials on Islam in West Africa, especially the Islamic scholarship that emanated from Timbuktu. He subscribed to Tarikh, collected material on Islamic poetry and philosophy. My fascination with the travels and writings of Ibn Battuta started in my father’s library at home. That was where I also encountered names like Rumi, Ibn Khaldun, and Al Maghili. Dewdrops of memory…
This is the Islam I knew. This is the Islam that fed my belly and my mind. Now I watch in horror, in stark contemplation of a faith gone awry. How did this Islam arrive at the conclusion that it was okay to sever the head of Gideon Akaluka, mount it on a spike, and chant Allah Akbar triumphantly in the streets of Kano? What about Christianah Oluwasesin, clobbered to death in the name of this Islam by high school boys? Why has the educated elite from this part of Nigeria pretended thus far that it can do nothing about this nonsense for which they must all be held responsible without exception? Have they given a thought to forming alliances and embarking on sensitization campaigns to wrest Islam from the control of their deadly and opportunistic political elite? Again, we must ask that question inspired by Senghor: what is this Islam which is not Islam?



Abdullahi Al-Hassan said:

Jones have forgotten that all the other religions of the world unite against islam. from israel ( ma Allah curse be on them) to denmark (la anatullah) and to every part of the word. from killing of muslims in the middle east by israel, england and america and the abuse of prophet Mohammad (SAW) in europe and the abuse of Qur'an everywhere in the world. you have to remember all these things. Islam teaches us to live in peace with all lovers of peace, Islam has never allow us to fight except to depend ourselves and our properties.
Jones said:

If Islam is a peaceful religion as the muslims try to defend it. Why is Islam at war with every other religion on earth even among itself? We have about a thousand religions on earth and it´s a common knowledge that Islam is the religion that is causing over 75% of all religious related troubles on earth.
One may find it difficult to name the most peaceful religion on earth at first thought but everybody can tell the most troublesome religion on earth without a second thought.

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Permalink Reply by Mwakuk Jang on March 17, 2010 at 3:37pm

Hello Ruth,

Thank you for the interest in my profile. You can link up with me on: [email protected]

ruthbaby2010 said:

[email protected]
hello
My name is Ruth,i saw your profile today and became interested in you,i will also like to know you the more and i want you to send an email to my privet email address so i can give you my picture for you to know whom i am.
Here is my email address([email protected])
I believe we can move from here!and remember distance or colour doesn't matter anything but love matters allot in life.
I am waiting for your mail to my privet email address above.
see your reply soon.
[email protected]
Ruth

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Permalink Reply by agboola temitope oluwafemi on March 22, 2010 at 11:10am

well, religion is a very strong topic to be discussed in a public read up yes Muslim, Christian every one fight for superiority of their faith but i will never support a religion that advocate for blood shedding to gain salvation but above all want every body to go back and really search if the book he believe in talked about killing or not for salvation just let leave to together, niaja issue is enough to face please if u know ur God u will do exploit

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by agboola temitope oluwafemi on March 22, 2010 at 11:10am

well, religion is a very strong topic to be discussed in a public read up yes Muslim, Christian every one fight for superiority of their faith but i will never support a religion that advocate for blood shedding to gain salvation but above all want every body to go back and really search if the book he believe in talked about killing or not for salvation just let leave to together, niaja issue is enough to face please if u know ur God u will do exploit

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