Muslim Belief

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in the prison ministry.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially amongst the minority races!!!

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?' There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'


I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith, or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me!

Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the Diversification training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.


In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President!

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!


This is your chance to make a difference...


FOR GODS' SAKE! PLEASE SEND THIS ON!

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Replies to This Discussion

Hi Mr. Frank

I don't know why you have been mentioning my name in your comments, the topic is on Islam but it never originated from me, i only made comments just like others, though you have the right to agree or disagree with comments you read but if you read my trend of comments very well you will discover you actually started the use of foul words not only on me but on the Holy Prophet of Islam.

You might have been to every muslim countries in the world but what i want you to realise is that leaving with a saint does not make an individual a saint, Judas has the privilege to be among the most reffered and most honoured people in the bible but he chose to be among the cursed despite his closeness to Jesus Christ,... Abu lahab and Abu Jahil had the same opportunty during the live of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, but they chose to be among the cursed despite having the chance to see and hear the Holy prophet, so if you are now using your opportunity to travel to those countries to campaign against Islam and the holy Prophet, Mr. Frank am not in any way surprise..

I WISH YOU BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR ENDEAVOURS.







frank osundo said:
Mr Researcher,thanks for the call for decorum...my stand here is to give my defense and no intention whatever to injure anyone's feelings... and i am not interested to talk about islam orless when is neccessary as ahmed made it in the recent past.i did comparative religion in one of my elective courses in oman and i feel the knowledge i garnered is indubitable, i'm ok by that and pls just let me be. i dont want to state anything that u will term abusive but to summarise my point. my knwledge of islam as a religion is based on Quran and Sunnah (practices of Mohamed). About 1.2-billion people believe in Islam and it is known to its followers Muslims in many ways, such as by birth, conversion, and study. Most Muslims adopt Islam due to their birth to Muslim parents. Among all these Muslims, most of them are familiar with Islam by faith and little practices. However, Islam is not limited with prayers, hajj, jakat, and fast only. Islam is supposed to be the example of Mohamed (the founder) and what Quran emphasises, and all Muslims are required to obey.

In reality, Islam is far away from the ideal of a religion when Quran and Hadis (Sunnah) are thoroughly read. The majority Muslims are not even near Islam and it is not honestly known to them. Imams, Mullahs, or such people who spend their lives on Islam represent the picture of Islam.

The very important factor of Islam is Mohamed. In order to know a religion, it is mandatory to know the originator very well, whether he represents the messages of God. While paying full attention to the biography of Mohamed...but lets leave it at that pls!

These days, Islam has been a centre point of discussion everywhere in the world. People are wondering what actually Islam is, and that was what mode this writer view. Islam is very complicated, which has various impacts on every walk of life as u noticed. If there is anything that creates similar shapes, that must be discussed along with Islam. Lie cannot defeat the truth. just keep to what u believe,if we are to continue i cannot help than to be force to be bringing out facts that may offend many whom term my stand offensive...anyway,thank u mr researcher.
Researcher said:
Good day,
mr frank, i can see that you have dedicated yourself to your positions on this discussion and i appreciate that. i would want to appeal to you to please try as much as you can, even pray for God guidance before you respond to comment particularly with respect to the style of your speech and choice of words. this appeal also goes to others. it is important that we consider something. i imagine a child reading some of the post that we have had on this forum and seeing how adult talk to themselves. its a shame really. you should know they have access to it. we want our young generation to learn courtesy from us, we want them to understand that they can disagree with people and still be their friends, we want them to understand that love is shared. that the world has multiple facets, different people, different believes and ideals. i believe you want this too.

let me explain some things cos i believe it might help your understanding and that of others too.

1. you can not use the attitude of yorubas, hausa, igbo, arabs, americans, white or black to define a global believe, ideology or faith. the dynamics of the human race makes it so difficult to define what people really stand for. they must tell you how and why they believe whatever they believe before you can pass your judgement. you must understand that a number of people would do the same thing but for different reasons. the faith we profess is not different. so to pass your judgement, ask the question why are you what you are? why do what you do? why believe what you believe. when you truly understand a people, you will know how to relate with them. you think the yorubas are soooo good, ask them why? and you must know, that believe is a conjecture, it is not a fact.

2. sometimes, we have been unfortunate to be fed with wrong information such that we do not only believe in them, we teach them to others. i imagine a time when a white kid will look at the buttocks of a black slave to see if he has a tail. why? he has been fed with the information that blacks are not people, that they are animals in fact that they are monkeys. today, we are being fed with such information and we eagerly as usual, feed it to others. Whatever information we want to pass across pls let us ensure that we verify and double clarify before we inform others. Some people would not check back to know that you have corrected a mistake and some have so much trust in us that they believe we can not be wrong. Whatever they hear from us would not only be seen as the gospel truth, they will communicate it to others as such. That is the case of the original post for instance. So deep down, do we think that all we have said or written and read by others are facts that they can equally parrot on our behalf?

3. to really learn about something, you must show genuine interest and have an open heart. This may not be a good reference but I learnt something. In the new james chameron movie, avatar, the navii had problems teaching the people from the sky. why? The people of the sky were scientist and they believed the navii were salvage and should rather learn from them (the sky people). When the new guy came and they told him he would not learn, he told them something, “my cup is empty”. and of course he learnt. He learnt in a wonderful way. My point, to learn about islam, you have to come with an empty cup.
How do I mean, lets start this way. A lot of people see is islam as just a religion with rituals and believes just like they see other religion or their faith. Therefore, Islamic believe and tenets are judged by this assumptions ‘sebi’ its just a religion. In fact observing must comments and argument will show you this clearly. Let me emphasis that you can not compare islam with any other religion. Why?

Islam is not just a religion, it’s a total package for existence. Which means there is something for everything that exist in islam. Let me make it short. Islam is a believe which means it is faith based. It runs its own system. The picture is typical of a country where there is a political system, economy system, a social system, legal system, spiritual system, education system, financial system, cultural system, philosophical system, military systems etc. it’s a complete way of life. This totality concept is what people fail to understand. An understanding of this concept will guide the understanding of some of the rules, guideline and principles of islam.

So you see my friend, this concept is what some muslims too miss that have created issues that we have today. Whatever you read in isolation of this understanding might be misunderstood. examples, if you read about the battles fought by the prophet Muhammad (SAW), think about the battles of the Nigerian army. If you read about the shariah, think about the constitution of the united state, if you read about ‘riba’ (banking interest), think about a policy of the Central Bank.

Please, if there are actions of muslims that you are worried about, try to find out. Why? In fact, you may be able to educate them only when you have learnt islam.

Pls I can always be of help.


frank osundo said:
MR. KOLADE, DONT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT,MY CANDID STAND ABOUT THE DYNAMIC UNIFYING CULTURE OF THE YORUBA PEOPLE AMIDST VARYING RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, IS MEANT TO SAY THAT YORUBA PAY MUCH OBEISANCE TO THEIR CULTURE THAN RELIGIOUS TENETS. I TELL U EVEN THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES ' MAINSTREAM ISLAM GROUP' DON'T CONSIDER YORUBAS AS TRUE ISLAM FAITHFULS...THERE ARE NAMES YORUBAS ARE CALLED LIKE 'IZZALA' AND THEY CATEGORIZE U AS 'AR'NA'. FOR EXAMPLE', FASHOLA IS A MUSLIM HIS WIFE A CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN...FASHOLA AND TINUBU COULD GO TO CHURCH PRAY AND FEEL FREE,IT IS NOT SAME WITH OTHERS...AND IT IS NOT ATTRIBUTED TO ISLAM RATHER IS CULTURE DYNAMISM. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING,IF U ARE OPEN TO TRUTH U WILL KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING. FINALLY, I RESPECT ALL WHO CHOOSE WHATEVER TO WORSHIP,BUT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT OVERSTEP THEIR BOUNDARIES AS AHMED ATTEMPTED AND I HAD NO CHOICE THAN TO TELL HIM THE GOSPEL TRUTH, I KNOW WHEREVER HE IS NOW HE WOULD THINK BEFORE SAYING WHATEVER NEXT TIME.THANK U

Kolade said:
Hi Mr Frank,
I think by now, you should at least have a second thought on your negative impression of Islam. At least your perceived respect for the "Yoruba Muslims" should be enough to let you realize that Islam has not made them "BLOOD THIRSTY". And for those whom you referred to as being "BLOOD THIRSTY", it would be unfair to put the blame on Islam for such crimes. A Muslim whether Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, etc, are those who unconditionally follow the commandments of God Almighty as stated in the Quran and exemplified by the Holy prophet Muhammad.
I also like to point out here that it is very easy for people to mis-interpret messages from the Holy Books if not well versed in them.
That's why we have thousand of volumes of commentaries by scholars to interpret this books to us. For instance, one could be misled by just picking an English Quran and start reading just like that. I hope this makes meaning to non-Muslims as Muslims are quite aware of what 'am trying to explain here. The messages in the book are revealed as a result of events preceding them. Therefore one need to know this before understanding the context of the Quran. Most Muslim know this.

Lastly, If you find any group or individual getting involved in killings as you have repeatedly mentioned in your comments, then such a person is not a Muslim. Period.

It is unfortunate that most people don't even know that groups like BOKO HARAM, MAITASYNE, etc, are not Muslims.

The truth is that no religion preaches violence and any body or group that is found going against this must be brought to book by the law.

Look at killings in DR Congo, attack on Togo nations cup team in Angola, killings in Liberia, etc. These are nations that have almost 100 % Christian citizens. can we say those killers are commanded to perpetrate their evil by Christianity ? the answer is No.

Let us not allow sentiments to overshadow our emotions by raising abuses and curses on each other as I have seen in the past few days on this forum.
It is natural that every religion faithfuls would stand to defend their religion, however in doing so, let us not go beyond barriers by cursing ourselves.

God Knows best.

frank osundo said:
YEA...I ACCEPT 100% IF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WILL EMULATE THE YORUBA PEOPLE HOW THEY LIVE IN PEACE WITH THEMSELVES NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION ANYONE PROFESSES, IT WILL GO ALONG WAY TO HEAL OUR LAND OF MUCH BLOOD BATH THAT IS ONGOING... BUT UNFURNATELY MAJORITY ARE BLOOD THIRSTY ORIENTED. GOD HELP US, AMEN.
TOMORI TAOFIK IDOWU said:
In all ways, I pray the gud spirit in u neva die and ds by God almighty grace shall lead u true.I am a muslim but my step mum is a christian who have bn wonderful.My family is missed up wit christian and muslim.All we need is just to believe and be sincere with wat we believe in.We cant help anybody but lets all do it right.I realy respect and appreciate you cos u are the only person since i'v bn commenting that sear a fair feeling.

frank osundo said:
GOD BLESS U,THAT HAS BEING MY STAND AAND U HAVE BUTTRESSED IT...YORUBA CULTURE IS VERY DYNAMIC AND IT HAS SAVED BLOODBATH..ANY VINDICATION OUTSIDE THIS , MAY NOT MAKE MEANING,BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD NOW.

Ademola Temi said:
I want to comment/reply to Ahmad, Mohammeed Martins et al. I want all of us to understand that, nobody had a choice on the kind of religion to belong!. We were born one day into a particular family already in a particular religion and so brought up in that religion. I am a christian by faith, but most of the people who have shown great kindness to me in life are Muslims. I have wonderful family members who are muslims. I think there is no need to go to the extreme trying to vilify or be vindictive about religion. I strongly believe that God created christianity and islam to be. There is nothing we can do about it. I read it on this site that there is nothing like violence in the quran, same with bible. Let us live so and spread it so. I am from SouthWest Nigeria, where there is hardly any family (extended) where there is no muslim and christian. Even if there is any law like killing non-muslim, it CANNOT prosper with the kind of family collectivism culture in the region. Pls let's spread it round that you cannot help God, God is the creator of heaven and the earth, and everything in it, including religion!. May God help us all.
MR. FRANK CAN YOU PLEASE IN THE NAME OF GOD GO BACK TO MY LAST COMMENT, I NEVER SAID JUDAS ISCARIOT IS HONOURED, WHAT I SAID WAS THAT JUDAS HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE AMONG THE HONOURED AND MOST REFFERED IN THE BIBLE BUT HE CHOSED TO BE AMONG THE CURSED..... ALSO THERE WAS NEVER A TIME I TERMED THE COMMENTS " NOT WORTH IT " PLEASE LET YOUR RELIGION BE FOR YOU AND MINE FOR ME...

MY REGARDS TO THE MORE ENLIGHTENED AND MORE INTELLIGENT INDIVIDUALS WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE TREND OF OUR COMMENTS..

frank osundo said:
AHMED, U SHOULD HIDE UR HEAD IN SHAME AND U AINT A MAN OF UR WORDS. WHY COMING BACK TO THE VENTURE U TERM NOT WORTH IT? WHY NOT HEED TO SIFO'S CALL? U SEE HOW TRUTH COULD TRIGGER CRISIS IN ONE'S LIFE. U COULD LIE LIKE A SERPENT BUT VERY EASY TO GET HOLD OF U...U STARTED IT WITH MISS AYAKOR DIGRESSING FROM THE TOPIC OF PEACE TO BE ERRONEOUSLY SAYING "THE JESUS U KNOWS U KNOW HIM NOT". THE HEIGHT OF IT IS MISQOUTING HER AND LYING AGAINST HER.WHAT DO U THINK WILL BE THE REPERCUSSION? MY OUTBURST AND TRUTH STEM FROM UR IGNORANCE,OUR LORD JESUS IS NOT A MERE MORTAL AND IT AMUSING SOME MUSLIMS SAY THEY CANT ABUSE HIM, HOW DARE U ABUSE A DIVINITY LIKE CHRIST WHOSE MINISTRY IS NEXT TO NONE. U CLD SEE HOW CHILDISH AND HALF BAKED IN RELIGION U ARE...HOW DO U MEAN JUDAS ISCARIOT IS HONOURED IN THE BIBLE?WHAT A BASELESS MINDSET?AND WHAT MAKES UR INSTANCE OF THE ABUS MEETING MOHAMMED WITH MY TRIP TO MIDDLE EAST? PLS I WILL NOT SAY MORE BECAUSE I KNOW MANY OF MY FRIENDS HERE WILL FEEL BAD, THOUGH IT IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH I STAND ON...AHMED PLS LEAVE ME ALONE,GO IN PIECES OR PEACE AS U EARLIER SAID,BE MAN ENOUGH.
AHMED said:
Hi Mr. Frank

I don't know why you have been mentioning my name in your comments, the topic is on Islam but it never originated from me, i only made comments just like others, though you have the right to agree or disagree with comments you read but if you read my trend of comments very well you will discover you actually started the use of foul words not only on me but on the Holy Prophet of Islam.

You might have been to every muslim countries in the world but what i want you to realise is that leaving with a saint does not make an individual a saint, Judas has the privilege to be among the most reffered and most honoured people in the bible but he chose to be among the cursed despite his closeness to Jesus Christ,... Abu lahab and Abu Jahil had the same opportunty during the live of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, but they chose to be among the cursed despite having the chance to see and hear the Holy prophet, so if you are now using your opportunity to travel to those countries to campaign against Islam and the holy Prophet, Mr. Frank am not in any way surprise..

I WISH YOU BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR ENDEAVOURS.







frank osundo said:
Mr Researcher,thanks for the call for decorum...my stand here is to give my defense and no intention whatever to injure anyone's feelings... and i am not interested to talk about islam orless when is neccessary as ahmed made it in the recent past.i did comparative religion in one of my elective courses in oman and i feel the knowledge i garnered is indubitable, i'm ok by that and pls just let me be. i dont want to state anything that u will term abusive but to summarise my point. my knwledge of islam as a religion is based on Quran and Sunnah (practices of Mohamed). About 1.2-billion people believe in Islam and it is known to its followers Muslims in many ways, such as by birth, conversion, and study. Most Muslims adopt Islam due to their birth to Muslim parents. Among all these Muslims, most of them are familiar with Islam by faith and little practices. However, Islam is not limited with prayers, hajj, jakat, and fast only. Islam is supposed to be the example of Mohamed (the founder) and what Quran emphasises, and all Muslims are required to obey.

In reality, Islam is far away from the ideal of a religion when Quran and Hadis (Sunnah) are thoroughly read. The majority Muslims are not even near Islam and it is not honestly known to them. Imams, Mullahs, or such people who spend their lives on Islam represent the picture of Islam.

The very important factor of Islam is Mohamed. In order to know a religion, it is mandatory to know the originator very well, whether he represents the messages of God. While paying full attention to the biography of Mohamed...but lets leave it at that pls!

These days, Islam has been a centre point of discussion everywhere in the world. People are wondering what actually Islam is, and that was what mode this writer view. Islam is very complicated, which has various impacts on every walk of life as u noticed. If there is anything that creates similar shapes, that must be discussed along with Islam. Lie cannot defeat the truth. just keep to what u believe,if we are to continue i cannot help than to be force to be bringing out facts that may offend many whom term my stand offensive...anyway,thank u mr researcher.
Researcher said:
Good day,
mr frank, i can see that you have dedicated yourself to your positions on this discussion and i appreciate that. i would want to appeal to you to please try as much as you can, even pray for God guidance before you respond to comment particularly with respect to the style of your speech and choice of words. this appeal also goes to others. it is important that we consider something. i imagine a child reading some of the post that we have had on this forum and seeing how adult talk to themselves. its a shame really. you should know they have access to it. we want our young generation to learn courtesy from us, we want them to understand that they can disagree with people and still be their friends, we want them to understand that love is shared. that the world has multiple facets, different people, different believes and ideals. i believe you want this too.

let me explain some things cos i believe it might help your understanding and that of others too.

1. you can not use the attitude of yorubas, hausa, igbo, arabs, americans, white or black to define a global believe, ideology or faith. the dynamics of the human race makes it so difficult to define what people really stand for. they must tell you how and why they believe whatever they believe before you can pass your judgement. you must understand that a number of people would do the same thing but for different reasons. the faith we profess is not different. so to pass your judgement, ask the question why are you what you are? why do what you do? why believe what you believe. when you truly understand a people, you will know how to relate with them. you think the yorubas are soooo good, ask them why? and you must know, that believe is a conjecture, it is not a fact.

2. sometimes, we have been unfortunate to be fed with wrong information such that we do not only believe in them, we teach them to others. i imagine a time when a white kid will look at the buttocks of a black slave to see if he has a tail. why? he has been fed with the information that blacks are not people, that they are animals in fact that they are monkeys. today, we are being fed with such information and we eagerly as usual, feed it to others. Whatever information we want to pass across pls let us ensure that we verify and double clarify before we inform others. Some people would not check back to know that you have corrected a mistake and some have so much trust in us that they believe we can not be wrong. Whatever they hear from us would not only be seen as the gospel truth, they will communicate it to others as such. That is the case of the original post for instance. So deep down, do we think that all we have said or written and read by others are facts that they can equally parrot on our behalf?

3. to really learn about something, you must show genuine interest and have an open heart. This may not be a good reference but I learnt something. In the new james chameron movie, avatar, the navii had problems teaching the people from the sky. why? The people of the sky were scientist and they believed the navii were salvage and should rather learn from them (the sky people). When the new guy came and they told him he would not learn, he told them something, “my cup is empty”. and of course he learnt. He learnt in a wonderful way. My point, to learn about islam, you have to come with an empty cup.
How do I mean, lets start this way. A lot of people see is islam as just a religion with rituals and believes just like they see other religion or their faith. Therefore, Islamic believe and tenets are judged by this assumptions ‘sebi’ its just a religion. In fact observing must comments and argument will show you this clearly. Let me emphasis that you can not compare islam with any other religion. Why?

Islam is not just a religion, it’s a total package for existence. Which means there is something for everything that exist in islam. Let me make it short. Islam is a believe which means it is faith based. It runs its own system. The picture is typical of a country where there is a political system, economy system, a social system, legal system, spiritual system, education system, financial system, cultural system, philosophical system, military systems etc. it’s a complete way of life. This totality concept is what people fail to understand. An understanding of this concept will guide the understanding of some of the rules, guideline and principles of islam.

So you see my friend, this concept is what some muslims too miss that have created issues that we have today. Whatever you read in isolation of this understanding might be misunderstood. examples, if you read about the battles fought by the prophet Muhammad (SAW), think about the battles of the Nigerian army. If you read about the shariah, think about the constitution of the united state, if you read about ‘riba’ (banking interest), think about a policy of the Central Bank.

Please, if there are actions of muslims that you are worried about, try to find out. Why? In fact, you may be able to educate them only when you have learnt islam.

Pls I can always be of help.


frank osundo said:
MR. KOLADE, DONT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT,MY CANDID STAND ABOUT THE DYNAMIC UNIFYING CULTURE OF THE YORUBA PEOPLE AMIDST VARYING RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, IS MEANT TO SAY THAT YORUBA PAY MUCH OBEISANCE TO THEIR CULTURE THAN RELIGIOUS TENETS. I TELL U EVEN THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES ' MAINSTREAM ISLAM GROUP' DON'T CONSIDER YORUBAS AS TRUE ISLAM FAITHFULS...THERE ARE NAMES YORUBAS ARE CALLED LIKE 'IZZALA' AND THEY CATEGORIZE U AS 'AR'NA'. FOR EXAMPLE', FASHOLA IS A MUSLIM HIS WIFE A CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN...FASHOLA AND TINUBU COULD GO TO CHURCH PRAY AND FEEL FREE,IT IS NOT SAME WITH OTHERS...AND IT IS NOT ATTRIBUTED TO ISLAM RATHER IS CULTURE DYNAMISM. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING,IF U ARE OPEN TO TRUTH U WILL KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING. FINALLY, I RESPECT ALL WHO CHOOSE WHATEVER TO WORSHIP,BUT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT OVERSTEP THEIR BOUNDARIES AS AHMED ATTEMPTED AND I HAD NO CHOICE THAN TO TELL HIM THE GOSPEL TRUTH, I KNOW WHEREVER HE IS NOW HE WOULD THINK BEFORE SAYING WHATEVER NEXT TIME.THANK U

Kolade said:
Hi Mr Frank,
I think by now, you should at least have a second thought on your negative impression of Islam. At least your perceived respect for the "Yoruba Muslims" should be enough to let you realize that Islam has not made them "BLOOD THIRSTY". And for those whom you referred to as being "BLOOD THIRSTY", it would be unfair to put the blame on Islam for such crimes. A Muslim whether Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, etc, are those who unconditionally follow the commandments of God Almighty as stated in the Quran and exemplified by the Holy prophet Muhammad.
I also like to point out here that it is very easy for people to mis-interpret messages from the Holy Books if not well versed in them.
That's why we have thousand of volumes of commentaries by scholars to interpret this books to us. For instance, one could be misled by just picking an English Quran and start reading just like that. I hope this makes meaning to non-Muslims as Muslims are quite aware of what 'am trying to explain here. The messages in the book are revealed as a result of events preceding them. Therefore one need to know this before understanding the context of the Quran. Most Muslim know this.

Lastly, If you find any group or individual getting involved in killings as you have repeatedly mentioned in your comments, then such a person is not a Muslim. Period.

It is unfortunate that most people don't even know that groups like BOKO HARAM, MAITASYNE, etc, are not Muslims.

The truth is that no religion preaches violence and any body or group that is found going against this must be brought to book by the law.

Look at killings in DR Congo, attack on Togo nations cup team in Angola, killings in Liberia, etc. These are nations that have almost 100 % Christian citizens. can we say those killers are commanded to perpetrate their evil by Christianity ? the answer is No.

Let us not allow sentiments to overshadow our emotions by raising abuses and curses on each other as I have seen in the past few days on this forum.
It is natural that every religion faithfuls would stand to defend their religion, however in doing so, let us not go beyond barriers by cursing ourselves.

God Knows best.

frank osundo said:
YEA...I ACCEPT 100% IF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WILL EMULATE THE YORUBA PEOPLE HOW THEY LIVE IN PEACE WITH THEMSELVES NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION ANYONE PROFESSES, IT WILL GO ALONG WAY TO HEAL OUR LAND OF MUCH BLOOD BATH THAT IS ONGOING... BUT UNFURNATELY MAJORITY ARE BLOOD THIRSTY ORIENTED. GOD HELP US, AMEN.
TOMORI TAOFIK IDOWU said:
In all ways, I pray the gud spirit in u neva die and ds by God almighty grace shall lead u true.I am a muslim but my step mum is a christian who have bn wonderful.My family is missed up wit christian and muslim.All we need is just to believe and be sincere with wat we believe in.We cant help anybody but lets all do it right.I realy respect and appreciate you cos u are the only person since i'v bn commenting that sear a fair feeling.

frank osundo said:
GOD BLESS U,THAT HAS BEING MY STAND AAND U HAVE BUTTRESSED IT...YORUBA CULTURE IS VERY DYNAMIC AND IT HAS SAVED BLOODBATH..ANY VINDICATION OUTSIDE THIS , MAY NOT MAKE MEANING,BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD NOW.

Ademola Temi said:
I want to comment/reply to Ahmad, Mohammeed Martins et al. I want all of us to understand that, nobody had a choice on the kind of religion to belong!. We were born one day into a particular family already in a particular religion and so brought up in that religion. I am a christian by faith, but most of the people who have shown great kindness to me in life are Muslims. I have wonderful family members who are muslims. I think there is no need to go to the extreme trying to vilify or be vindictive about religion. I strongly believe that God created christianity and islam to be. There is nothing we can do about it. I read it on this site that there is nothing like violence in the quran, same with bible. Let us live so and spread it so. I am from SouthWest Nigeria, where there is hardly any family (extended) where there is no muslim and christian. Even if there is any law like killing non-muslim, it CANNOT prosper with the kind of family collectivism culture in the region. Pls let's spread it round that you cannot help God, God is the creator of heaven and the earth, and everything in it, including religion!. May God help us all.
very interesting...
you wonder when some people will stand up to the truth they know and stop hiding behind religion.
watever we all feel its right,lets kp doing that .Lets just be mindful of disintegrating ourself.YOU can only say ur view but we cant be a judge in our case.Thanks to all.Have a nice day.
lets us all be.U cant defend any 1 but, be mindful of ur ultrance and conclusion.U are to suggest and contribute mrturely.Have a rewarding week ahead.Takia
Brothers let us love one another for love is of God and anyone that loveth is of God. 1 John vs 7&8
@Usman Mohamed,i don't think that Pedro is an illitrate,only that he has right to his opinion and you shouldn't be insultive towards him. Afteral you re not speaking any better english,though english is not your mother language. But just take a look at how many blunders you made in your statements,it shows you re not mannered. Here you said in your own word (@pedro you an infidel) you should ve wrote(you re an infidel) then you blunder here again with (If you learned),next time write"if you re learned". You call Pedro an illitrate but i disagreed with you,instead you re the real dummy donkey. Tell me what you mean with (Today you this Holy book translated in so many languages?) You see,you make me sick with your litrate writings,please go back to school. You re exactly what people re saying muslims re by calling others infidels. What make you think you re in a more better possition to call them infidels? Please it's high time you stop commenting here cos my belly worries me each time i read your tuwo shinkafi grammer. Mumu man,mr death to infidels.
If every other cleric of other religions should go on such hateful preachings, I wonder what would become of the human race. Maybe we would all be dead by now. People should learn to love one another for the sake of global peace.
@mike When i started reading your writeup i was really impress at the beginning,but highly confused at the end.This is because i was thinking you are actually correcting Usman Mohahammed for using an insulting statemented to some one but rather, correcting his English, i stand to be corrected, i think English should not be our point of concern in this room,because we may not be at the same level of studies, usman may be a high school student and you may be in higher school of learning than him,so just get his point and respond to that do not bother your self with his English. you should bear in your mind that if our English need to be screened and analyzed in this room by our readers then you also may have a lot to do to write any response here the same goes to me too,also want you to understand that this paper and articles are been viewed by lot of intellectuals world wide not only Nigeria.finally, you are correcting usman mohammed for insulting some one but you ended of insulting him you said and i quote (Mumu man,mr death to infidels) do you think is right? wrong + wrong =????.i also want you to please know because usman mohammed(Muslim) is wrong does not make Islam (Muslims) wrong.let me say here, i agree with you insult is always a bad approach to issues especially in a room of intellectuals like this, so please advise all of those who like using insulting statements here not only Usman mohammed,just a correction ALLAH knows best.

Mike Nwajagu said:
@Usman Mohamed,i don't think that Pedro is an illitrate,only that he has right to his opinion and you shouldn't be insultive towards him. Afteral you re not speaking any better english,though english is not your mother language. But just take a look at how many blunders you made in your statements,it shows you re not mannered. Here you said in your own word (@pedro you an infidel) you should ve wrote(you re an infidel) then you blunder here again with (If you learned),next time write"if you re learned". You call Pedro an illitrate but i disagreed with you,instead you re the real dummy donkey. Tell me what you mean with (Today you this Holy book translated in so many languages?) You see,you make me sick with your litrate writings,please go back to school. You re exactly what people re saying muslims re by calling others infidels. What make you think you re in a more better possition to call them infidels? Please it's high time you stop commenting here cos my belly worries me each time i read your tuwo shinkafi grammer. Mumu man,mr death to infidels.
My Frank,

It amazing to see how far you've gone into Islamic history.

The unfortunate thing is that you might develop more and more hatred for Islam with those stories, based on your current stand on Islam. On the contrary, if God wishes, you might even end up in seeing the true light of Islam if your search is with sincerity.

Before Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) passed away over 1400 years ago, he had already prophesied divisions among popular religion, Islam inclusive. According to him, the Jews, Christians and the Muslims will experience this division.

See the details of this below:

The Messenger (peace be upon him) said,: “The Jews split into 71 sects, and the Christians split into 72 sects. My nation is going to split into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire except one.”

It was said, “Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah?” He replied,
“They those who are upon what I and my Companions are upon.”

The Prophet (peace be upon him ) said I have left you upon clear proof, its night is like its day no one deviates except that he is destroyed & whoever amongst you lives for long will see great controversy, so stick to that which you know of my Sunnah (my practice) & the Sunnah (practice) of Rightly Guided Caliphs; cling to that with your molar teeth.

The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a h*** of a mastigure, you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”

‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, radiallahu ‘anhu, said, “There is no excuse for anyone going astray thinking that he is upon guidance. Nor for abandoning guidance thinking it to be misguidance, since the affairs have been made clear, the proof established and the excuse cut off.” .... It has been made clear to the people, so it is upon the people to comply and follow.

So, all these divisions you've seen today have been prophesied. So it's not new. It only makes a cautious Muslim to be more aware of them and stick firmly to the teachings of Islam as taught by the Prophet and his rightly guided companions.

Discussing why this divisions is another lengthy topic on it's own and I think what should profit us is to be aware of them since it has been prophesied and to stick to the advice provided with respect to how to deal with it.

I wonder as a Christian if you're aware of controversy or sectarianism in Judaism and Christianity. If yes, then I think it won't be difficult for you to understand my point. Otherwise I would advice that you inquire about it.

Keep exploring Islam . My advice is that you do so with sincerity.

God Knows best.


I






frank osundo said:
My Bro, i wonder too. it is not about preaching hate per se but those whose life from the inception of the religion have exemplifies blood baths, hates and violence...how could a man term his fellow man 'infidel' what rights has he? i give u a preamble of indept division and hate even in islam itself after the dead of mohammed "the Muslim controversy was about who would be the caliph (religious leader) after Umar, the second caliph following Mohammed. Being caliph at that time was an extremely powerful position: Mohammed had wished to conquer the earth, and those succeeding him vigorously pursued this end. The first caliph after Umar, Uthman, was murdered after 12 years, can u beat that?. Ali, Mohammed’s son-in-law, became the next caliph, but met with wide-spread opposition, including that of his mother-in-law. Five years later, after several wars with other Muslims he too was murdered,wow! insanity of the highest order. The next caliph, Muawiya, started a dynasty which lasted 15 generations: the Umayyad Caliphate. This caused the Muslims to split because one group, the Shiites, wanted Ali’s son Hussein to be the next caliph, while the majority, known as Sunnis, were in favor of the Umayyad caliph.
The line of Mohammed through Ali and Hussein became extinct in 873 AD when the last Shiite Iman, Al-Askari, who had no brothers, disappeared within days of inheriting the title at the age of four,this was grand assasination. However, the Shiites did not want to accept that he died; instead they believed that he was merely “hidden” and would soon return. After several centuries, this still did not happen and spiritual power was passed down to a council called the Ulema, which consisted of twelve scholars who elected a supreme Imam. today there are hate among themselves, in nigeria the muslim brethren and those normal muslim hate themselves with passion and they could kill themselves, the average muslim in the north sees a southern muslim as ar'na (pagans).in our global world today we have Sunni ,Shiite, Kharijitis, Wahhabi , Ismailis , Ismaili Druze , Sufi, Baha'ism, and all of them have hates orientations...my friend a pakistanis ex-muslim told me of one of the sects called The Ismaili "Hashshashin" or "Assassins", used the drug hashish to get exited, and became famous for their practice of seizing Crusader forts and assassinating Christians. Today, known as "Khojas" or "Mawlas" in Bombay, India, and parts of Iran, Syria, and Zanzibar. with my vast experience here, For me, it is very difficult to relate 'peace' to islam as either religion or political organization...orless peace in their usage means an irony...even many of them dont know the inheritance the have bought in as a belief...yes, there are moderate yet they cant be trusted and more or less it will be slippery for the moderate to practice core dogmas.



The Prince said:
If every other cleric of other religions should go on such hateful preachings, I wonder what would become of the human race. Maybe we would all be dead by now. People should learn to love one another for the sake of global peace.
You are all defending and supporting one religion against each other, I think people that are into religious business brought about as a poverty fighting mechanism and not by faith should just stop this kind of debate... Come what are you people saying here, the subject is 'PEACE', what peace?, there are EARTHQUAKES here and there, TSUNAMIS, HURRICANES, LAND AND MUDSLIDES, WARS, CLIMATE CHANGE, POLITICAL INSTABILITY all over the world and you are talking peace associated with one religion. Please let people spread the gospel of human rights, good governance, religious position on corruption, crime and love for the environment. These are the enabling activities that can lead to a just peace on earth. Thank you all.

frank osundo said:
Mr. Kolade, u have helped this forum to know the truth, and it amounts to deceit when people come here to defend Islam as peaceful but is contrary...may be u don't understand what u posted as a comment here, what do u mean by ur Mohamed saying that: The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a h*** of a mastigure, you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”' meaning?
dont u think quaran is also a tool for division?

It means that u are forbidden to join christians and other religions in any activities, little wonder some of the northern Muslims term Yorubas like Tinubu, Fashola who virtually practice both christianity and islam as pagans, this hate speech attributed to Mohamed, is unfortunate.Yet u come here to say what about peace? dont u think this words alone have invalidate human harmony? u quoted it, not me...i feel the truth is gradually coming out from the horse's mouth, this is hatred of the highest order...

Funny dictates like a Muslim girl cant marry a christian orless he coverts, those who are liberal as to be autonomous in maintaining both faiths are not keeping Mohammad's tradition according to this hate statements. Sorry! u just ended up adding salt to injury...and it is very amusing u would say some people utterances here are harsh while this comment attributed to Mohamed is a bombshell and an insult to God's creatures as one and harmonious entity.

Kolade said:
My Frank,
It amazing to see how far you've gone into Islamic history.
The unfortunate thing is that you might develop more and more hatred for Islam with those stories, based on your current stand on Islam. On the contrary, if God wishes, you might even end up in seeing the true light of Islam if your search is with sincerity.

Before Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) passed away over 1400 years ago, he had already prophesied divisions among popular religion, Islam inclusive. According to him, the Jews, Christians and the Muslims will experience this division.

See the details of this below:

The Messenger (peace be upon him) said,: “The Jews split into 71 sects, and the Christians split into 72 sects. My nation is going to split into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire except one.”

It was said, “Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah?” He replied,
“They those who are upon what I and my Companions are upon.”

The Prophet (peace be upon him ) said I have left you upon clear proof, its night is like its day no one deviates except that he is destroyed & whoever amongst you lives for long will see great controversy, so stick to that which you know of my Sunnah (my practice) & the Sunnah (practice) of Rightly Guided Caliphs; cling to that with your molar teeth.

The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a h*** of a mastigure, you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”

‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, radiallahu ‘anhu, said, “There is no excuse for anyone going astray thinking that he is upon guidance. Nor for abandoning guidance thinking it to be misguidance, since the affairs have been made clear, the proof established and the excuse cut off.” .... It has been made clear to the people, so it is upon the people to comply and follow.

So, all these divisions you've seen today have been prophesied. So it's not new. It only makes a cautious Muslim to be more aware of them and stick firmly to the teachings of Islam as taught by the Prophet and his rightly guided companions.

Discussing why this divisions is another lengthy topic on it's own and I think what should profit us is to be aware of them since it has been prophesied and to stick to the advice provided with respect to how to deal with it.

I wonder as a Christian if you're aware of controversy or sectarianism in Judaism and Christianity. If yes, then I think it won't be difficult for you to understand my point. Otherwise I would advice that you inquire about it.

Keep exploring Islam . My advice is that you do so with sincerity.

God Knows best.


I






frank osundo said:
My Bro, i wonder too. it is not about preaching hate per se but those whose life from the inception of the religion have exemplifies blood baths, hates and violence...how could a man term his fellow man 'infidel' what rights has he? i give u a preamble of indept division and hate even in islam itself after the dead of mohammed "the Muslim controversy was about who would be the caliph (religious leader) after Umar, the second caliph following Mohammed. Being caliph at that time was an extremely powerful position: Mohammed had wished to conquer the earth, and those succeeding him vigorously pursued this end. The first caliph after Umar, Uthman, was murdered after 12 years, can u beat that?. Ali, Mohammed’s son-in-law, became the next caliph, but met with wide-spread opposition, including that of his mother-in-law. Five years later, after several wars with other Muslims he too was murdered,wow! insanity of the highest order. The next caliph, Muawiya, started a dynasty which lasted 15 generations: the Umayyad Caliphate. This caused the Muslims to split because one group, the Shiites, wanted Ali’s son Hussein to be the next caliph, while the majority, known as Sunnis, were in favor of the Umayyad caliph.
The line of Mohammed through Ali and Hussein became extinct in 873 AD when the last Shiite Iman, Al-Askari, who had no brothers, disappeared within days of inheriting the title at the age of four,this was grand assasination. However, the Shiites did not want to accept that he died; instead they believed that he was merely “hidden” and would soon return. After several centuries, this still did not happen and spiritual power was passed down to a council called the Ulema, which consisted of twelve scholars who elected a supreme Imam. today there are hate among themselves, in nigeria the muslim brethren and those normal muslim hate themselves with passion and they could kill themselves, the average muslim in the north sees a southern muslim as ar'na (pagans).in our global world today we have Sunni ,Shiite, Kharijitis, Wahhabi , Ismailis , Ismaili Druze , Sufi, Baha'ism, and all of them have hates orientations...my friend a pakistanis ex-muslim told me of one of the sects called The Ismaili "Hashshashin" or "Assassins", used the drug hashish to get exited, and became famous for their practice of seizing Crusader forts and assassinating Christians. Today, known as "Khojas" or "Mawlas" in Bombay, India, and parts of Iran, Syria, and Zanzibar. with my vast experience here, For me, it is very difficult to relate 'peace' to islam as either religion or political organization...orless peace in their usage means an irony...even many of them dont know the inheritance the have bought in as a belief...yes, there are moderate yet they cant be trusted and more or less it will be slippery for the moderate to practice core dogmas.

The Prince said:
If every other cleric of other religions should go on such hateful preachings, I wonder what would become of the human race. Maybe we would all be dead by now. People should learn to love one another for the sake of global peace.
It is better for you to come out plainly than to conjure events that never took place. One basic fact is that, God (ONLY-ONE-GOD-ALLAAH will judge you, reward you and/or punish you if you are blasphemous with this item of yours.

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